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Thread: Regarding Player Character Death

  1. #11
    Experienced Trainer Lychee's Avatar
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    If your brand new character in a roleplay was killed, wouldn't you feel a little upset? Or, how would you feel?

    In-game reasons aside (And they're all valid enough; characters all acted true to form and what's done is done) the place we are at now is that Truly feels sad he can't join in, he feels cheated, and angry. He said that, and I get it. If Palila had been killed when I was 5 posts into the new game, I would have been extremely discouraged and annoyed. I can understand the emotion.

    Similarly, if I've worked really hard on a storyline that I want to guide players through, and people kept challenging decisions, I'd feel very defensive and feel the need to justify my actions.

    It's all well and good to kill off a character, but a post saying "Hey, sorry I killed your character, here's what happens for you now, and here's a way to keep enjoying the game." Might go down better than one where we all fight to justify why someones pc was executed and stew in anger.
    I wanna move forwards with this, in a creative way! That's why I asked about Pokemon spirits.

    In any case, there's clearly a conflict going on here- maybe we could acknowledge and discuss some positive solutions to your mutual not-good feelings.
    Or, not. Whatever.
    This is the internet, after all.

  2. #12
    The Maddest Shaymin
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    We can all agree that if the same were to happen to us, we'd be upset. Jacob consulted multiple people before this occurred, a discussion that went for many many hours, and we knew there'd be backlash because it happened so quickly. That is why the statement got released.

    In addition, the staff have offered to let him sign up with a new character. It is not as if they are stewing in anger. They did say "here's what happens for you now and here's a way to keep enjoying the game". He has been given the opportunity to continue. He has not been barred from playing because of this and is more than welcome to continue playing. Jacob even said that he would get to keep all the points he earned as William, which granted while that is not a lot, he would still be starting out with more than a regular newbie. The idea of a ghost mon continuation could also be plausible and an interesting perspective, I agree. I actually quite like the idea and think it could be interesting to run with. That said, I can't speak for the GMs though as I have very limited knowledge of the story so really that's their decision not mine. There are ways to rectify it yes, and we should move forward. Jacob is merely replying to the questions asked of him of him by Truly. I don't think he intentionally meant to ignore you.

    Finally, I want to make it clear that Jacob was very clearly backed into a corner about this due to William's actions. It could've happened to any of the PCs had they engaged the big man with a laser and a giant charizard that can mega evolve. I mean heck, had it not been for Max, Amy might have died this morning too due to me choosing to have her fall unconscious. I was stumped as to how to get her out of the situation and Jacob was already using his NPCs to help the others, so he could not have come to my aid. Would I have been upset if that is how it went down? Very. But, it was because of my own actions leading up to that situation that ultimately caused it. I got lucky, as it was within Renny's character to come save her, but had that not been the case, I could be starting over too. We are all equally at risk and need to remember that when dealing with our characters.
    /// /
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  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Desolate Divine View Post
    I have answers to all of these however it is past midnight and I gotta be at work in seven hours so I will be addressing this tomorrow, probably after work if you dont mind waiting.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    I moved these posts. Its clear this all belongs here. I do not want this spreading to other threads.

    I have actively tried to avoid this thread and what I knew would happen.

    Since this thread is drawing more people in I feel I should respond. In regards to pcs dying I believe there is a real conversation to be had. I will work with the staff here so that we can make sure that if a character dies in the future it doesnt turn out like this. This is a mess and I tried to stop this before it happened i tried to work with both parties involved. The fact that the tension between the two partoes was already so high did not help any of this out. I knew the timing would seem bad. However, I can say with 100 percent certainty Jacob wouldnt kill a pc over something as petty as a fight. Weather there was other options is something that can be debated however the action of the gm to play out the logical outcome of a character who is hell bent on saving worlds in his own psychopath way running into a 13 year old threatening to essentially cause the deaths of hundreds maybe thousands DID NOT HELP. Now we as role players need to take a step back and ask ourselves what would a 13 year do and how mature or wise would one be. These are all things to think about but only in the context of how do to avoid both a gm and a rper feeling like they had no other options. If we can come to some common ground we can avoid this in the future.

    I dont want anyone feeling like they could have their character killed at any moment. The Will outcome has only happened one time in 7 plus years of story telling and we can all learn from this. As a staff we can try to suggest better choices to someone on a reckless path and as roleplayers we can acknowledge that gcea platinum has a very serious storyline with deadly villains. I doubt after this any of the characters in the story would think twice about following wills footsteps in taunting a psychopath.

    I also would ask that everyone responding to understand a lot of this tension can only be resolved by Truly and Jacob. We can all give our feedback and be heard but on this topic we should understand that these choices we all made can only be understood and accepted so that we can avoid this kind of outcome in the future.

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  6. #14
    In my current DnD campaign we are about to encounter our 4th Dragon:

    Dragon 1: Young Green Dragon, Challenge Rating 7 (Need 4 level 7 characters for this to be a fair fight, we had 2 Level 4 characters):
    Did not fight this Dragon, gave it a new lair and new servant and a whole bunch of stuff to get it to agree not to kill us.
    Lesson: When you are over-matched, don't antagonise the dragon.

    Dragon 2: Adult Blue Dragon, Challenge Rating 17(we had 2 level 1 characters):
    We hid and did avoided contact with this Dragon. No Contact at all.
    Lesson: Hiding is an acceptable response to the dragon.

    Dragon 3: Adult Black Dragon, Challenge Rating 14(We had 3 level 6 characters)
    Located this Dragon's lair. Then kept far away from it.
    Lesson: Don't mess with the dragon if you don't need to.

    Dragon 4: The one we are about to meet. (Adult white(We think) Challenge Rating 13)(We have 3 level 7 Characters, this time with specific gear useful for killing dragons to give us an advantage):
    We are trying to find some allies to join us, because that thing is still way too big, but we are considering taking this one out, even though it could literally kill any or all of us without much effort.
    Lesson: Plan your attack on the dragon, do not do it lightly, and understand that it could kill any (or all) of you. (I have a backup character ready to go in case we do decide to attack this dragon and it goes bad)

    This 'Robbocop' is a classic Dragon archetype. Way too powerful and deadly for low level characters, so that all you can do is find a way to get away.

    Losing a character sucks. But losing a character by standing up to the Dragon so that the rest of your party can escape has a heroic beauty in it's sadness.

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  8. #15
    Original GCEA Member brandon_g's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,

    I know I am not a part of GCEA Platinum, but I just wanted to chime in here to say that I have been a part of GCEA since almost the very beginning and it is true this is the first character death in the many gcea stories that have occured over the years.

    I know Rival Max is very fair and I am sure Jacob is as well, I think everyone should calm down a little bit and bear in mind that both Max and Jacob have an extremelly hard job, they have to balance this busy story with their personal lives and also keep the story on track, they sometimes have to make hard decisions and everyone should respect those decisions.

    As someone who had a fairly reckless character early on in Blue, I can say Max was very fair and gave plenty of warning when I was pushing things too far and I have since toned the character down mildly to avoid over stepping his bounds. You just have to respect that there are rules and limitations to what we can and can not do and its the GMs job to enforce this and keep everyone in check.

    GCEA is meant to be fun and I hope things can tone down a bit so everyone can have fun again.

    I also just want to say thank you to both Max and Jacob for taking the time out of their busy lives to keep gcea going all these years. I have enjoyed every last bit of it and GCEA is what keeps me signing in to this forum at all, so thank you to both of you.

    Thats all I have to say and I hope everyone can have fun again in this awesome roleplay. :D

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  10. #16
    If you won't be convinced, then I give up, you win. I don't have the stamina to keep caring.

    For those of you thinking my problem is the death, it's not. It's a symptom of the problem.

  11. #17
    The Maddest Shaymin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truly View Post
    2. Preach It, Brother!

    Why do you decide to proselytize in the same post as you kill a child? I understand that the character feels justified here, but the fact that as the GM you feel the need to include this parting shot makes it look like you agree with the psychopathic, would-be mass murderer.
    I'm going to leave most of these questions to DD but I am going to issue a warning here. Please refrain from accusing people of sympathizing with mass murderers. Separation of player and character is a concept well established both in D&D and in GCEA. It should be understood that this is the character, Robocop, speaking, not DD. He is acting as the character would and you as the player have no right to dictate how the villain should act.

    Such an accusation could be construed as bullying or harassment, which is a violation of PXR rules. This is your warning.
    /// /
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  13. #18
    Mary Mary tell me how your garden grows. Desolate Divine's Avatar
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    Melbourne Australia
    1. Get out of the car.
    Their plan was to use them as hostages. If the team refused to comply, threats to Matthias and Renny would be made. Basically to say "we have them, and will hurt them if you don't come with us". However they instead spoke with Robocop, and that didn't end up happening.

    2. Preach it brother.
    Robocop was not trying to convince them to just flop over and die, or to join his cause. He was explaining why he was doing what he was doing. I was using this to reveal more of his motives beyond just wanting to kill them. And I am not sure what logic you are using to say this makes me appear to sympathize with a mass murderer? You talk a lot about DM theory, so you understand that DMs run multiple Non-Player-Characters? My mate is a DM for my group, but that doesn't mean he is on the side of the Tiamat possessed, Silver Dragon Empress who is completely evil and ruthless in real life?

    3. I see everything.
    If I only wrote in first person, then yes, it would be a problem, however information that Sophie isn't privy to, is written in second person (if it is interacting with a single player character) or third person (if it is interacting with multiple player characters). These different viewpoints are clearly separated, and players involved in each instance are tagged. Even when Sophie is present, but isn't directly involved, such as a private conversation between another player character and an NPC, I will do the same thing to specify, granted that scenario hasn't happened yet. Take this post as an example.
    Name: Sophie Reed
    Team Status:

    Wolverine (14/14) Emperor (16/16) Arc (15/15) *Unnamed* (5/5) Enigma (30/30)



    Points: 88

    Basic Info Story Info
    Current Location: Route 203
    Time: Noon
    Day: 3
    Date: March 7th 2028
    Season: Early Spring
    Current Team: Sophie, Amy, Tony, Neith, Renny, Kinnie, Matthias, Palila, Drake, William, Marina, Cody

    As Marina's Prinplup was called back to it's Pokeball, I tried to grab one of my own.

    "Don't." Cody shouted, as he stepped forward, "You're injured and you will only make it worse."

    "I'm not gonna sit back and do nothing!" I yelled back, as I tried to get up.

    "Like hell you are!" Cody shouted, as he let out two of his Pokemon. A Gyarados that faced the Charizard and an Espeon that faced me.

    "Don't let her get up!" Cody said to the Espeon. It's eyes glowed and I felt an invisible hand hold me down, preventing me from getting up.

    Cody then turned to face the Charizard with his Gyarados. The water type was much larger than the Charizard, but physical size could only go so far, and it soon fell as well.

    Attacker: Gyarados
    Opponents: Mega Charizard X
    Attacker's Point Value: 20
    Opponent's Point Value: 130
    Bonuses: Kai -7/Charizard -26
    Attacker's Remaining Points: 0
    Opponent's Remaining Points: 91

    Cody called his Pokemon back to its ball, however the Charizard batted its wings, and launched itself into the air, before another explosive projectile hit, knocking everyone who was still standing to the ground, except Kinnie who seemed to be missing.

    There was silence as the sound of heavy footsteps crunched along the ground towards us, bringing into sight the source of the attack. A tall, muscular man in his late twenties, with messy, unkempt hair and light stubble. He wore a pair of large boots and torn jeans. His top half was covered with a large trench coat, which mostly hid something terrifying, but not completely. His right hand was made completely out of metal, which looked as if it went all the way up his arm.

    The man walked silently towards William and held his right hand forward. The metal hand seemed to transform, opening up and revealing a large barrel with a glowing blue light. Then finally he spoke.

    "You don't belong here..."

    ****** *@Rival Max *@Brettles
    As Renny speaks up the head grunt raises his hand and the two grunts either side of Renny step back, however those holding Matthias do not loosen their grip.

    "Look kid, I'm just a grunt. I can't make decisions like this. Only my leader who is currently in Canalave can make that decision." The grunt explains, "Either way I am taking this one with me to see him, and you are coming too. You can come willingly, and talk to him and try and come up with some sort of deal, and he might agree to let you go. Or we take you with us the same way we are taking him, and are going to take the rest of your little superhero group..."
    In this scenario, the two circumstances are separated by a half dozen or so asterisks (******) and the players in the new circumstances are tagged. I discussed this with you recently, where I mentioned that anything under a proper header will be first person and from Sophie's point of view, whilst anything under the asterisks will be second, or possibly third person.

    4. Where is everybody?
    That one I was actually surprised by. I didn't realize Rival Max had moved Sophie. That was simply a lack of communication between Rival Max and myself, and me missing that sentence. As for Cody's restraint, I never specified how long it was, whether it was for a few moments whilst Tony tried to patch her up, or whether it was permanent. Fact is that if Sophie got up, which means that the actions of an NPC whom I also control are negated, it is intentional, and is assumed by context that he removed the restraint.

    5. If I Had a Hammer.
    Ooh that is an easy one! After I wrote the post about William being killed, I had the idea of the post of the grunts being killed but figured that being ripped in half and having their head blown off is a bit more graphic, and might toe the line, so I asked Rival Max if that was okay and he said that I could as long as it was in spoilers.

    5. Spoiler Alert.
    Did you check the time on the first post of this statement and the post where William is killed? They are the same time, granted the latter was posted a few seconds earlier. I actually wrote these but held off posting until I could post together. That information in the second quote, of Robocops motives, had already been made public in platinum, right before William was killed, in that post, granted it wasn't much earlier however that being said, I linked this thread in on that post, which means a fair few people would have seen Platinum first then this after (unless they stopped reading Platinum to read the statement first).

    If you won't be convinced, then I give up, you win. I don't have the stamina to keep caring.

    For those of you thinking my problem is the death, it's not. It's a symptom of the problem.
    As for this, I am assuming this problem mentioned was what you mentioned before about the cut scene and seemingly no options. However whether you realize this or not, this statement is false for two reasons.

    Firstly: The decision for William to die had to come from one of three things:
    -A grudge I hold against you personally (which you said yourself, you don't believe is the case)
    -It being a random decision and one of the characters was going to die regardless, and William drew the short straw, which I assure you isn't the case. Believe me, I knew that this wouldn't be the end of it, and I would hear about it for a long time. I wouldn't make myself have to put up with all this for the sake of killing a character because I am apparently a mass-murder-sympathyser, and the idea of killing player characters gets me off. It ain't worth the BS.
    -It being the consequence of another action.

    Ultimately it was the third. If process of elimination doesn't make that clear, then ask yourself why none of the others were killed? If William died and nobody else did and we can agree that it wasn't personal (like you did prior) and that it wasn't a just a random pick (because contrary to popular belief, I don't get off on murder), and all the characters were in similar circumstances (granted, William was targeted first, however I had zero intention of him dying at that point. It wasn't until William's actions backed me into the corner of 'break the character or not' that we even considered him dying), the only difference was their actions.

    Secondly, and I am backing this statement one hundred percent. You know how I know that statement is false, whether you realize it or not? Because I am willing to bet anything I own, that had William not died in that circumstance, had he escaped with his life, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The story would be going along and you wouldn't have batted an eyelid. You say your problem isn't the death but that isn't the case, because this conversation about that moment in the story wouldn't have existed. And you know what? If I am wrong, and you wouldn't have approved of it had I let William escape, that just goes to prove that his actions were an attempt to back me into a corner. It goes to show that regardless of the decision I made, you would have had criticism, and had William act in a way that no matter what happened, you would feel like you have the moral high-ground to criticize me. I could have done no right, and the fact is, based on the constant conflict in the discord that seems to stem from your tendency to criticize both players for how they run their characters and myself as a DM, I wouldn't put it past you.

    I am happy to talk about this all you want. But don't feed me rubbish like that. I will be real with you, like I am being right now, and can handle myself. So don't hide behind false statements, because it wastes both of our time.
    Sophie's Trainer Card
    Paired with the awesome FedoraChar.

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  15. #19
    I would have criticized regardless of living or dying, because that isn't the problem that needed addressed!

    Dude, I am glad you have the energy to keep going. I blew my load. I started writing another reply last night, but you don't think there's anything wrong, so it's moot.


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