PXR Bible Study

[[Desolate Divine]]

[CENTER]
PXR Bible Study
I have been thinking for a little while of starting a Bible Study here on PXR. My main reason for that is that interpretations and translations vary between people, especially when they are on different sides of the planet, in different cultures, taught by different people. I am interested to see what the same people can get out of the same universal text. I also find that it would be a good way to find what I would like to read based on what others do, and to be able to see what we study from all different angles.

Rules:
~This is open to everyone. If you don't believe in God but want to understand the opinions and background of the Bible, this is probably a good place to do that. You might be pleasantly surprised. This isn't an attempt at a conversion center, but a way for people to understand it more. I see a lot of people spreading misunderstood and misinterpreted sections of the Bible, and it kills me. All that is asked is that you show respect towards others, even if your opinions do clash.
~If you find yourself wanting to still discuss a previous weeks chapter, especially if it is with just one person, please do so via VM or PM.
~For the sake of consistency, please note which translation you use when quoting verses.
That's it (Unless I think of more)!

Sign Up:
Name:
Why do you want to join the Bible Study (No wrong answer. More a curiosity thing to help with picking what we study than anything else):
Favorite Bible Book (If Applicable):

Bible Study Members:

[[Desolate Divine]]

Members:
Comatose (Jacob)
Neo Emolga
Velocity
FedoraChar

Past Studies:
Week 1, Romans: 3

[[Desolate Divine]]

And open! I will do my sign up now!

Name: Jacob
Why do you want to join the Bible Study: To try and get a better understanding of the Bible and how different cultures can influence the message it gives.
Favorite Bible Book: Isaiah. Funny in that it is a depressing and in my opinion, somewhat boring book, yet it has all these little verses scattered through it that I love (6:8, 53:5-6)
@Neo Emolga @FedoraChar @Brettles
Figured you guys might find this interesting :)

[[Desolate Divine]]

Week 1: Romans: 3

Spoiler:

Romans 3 New Living Translation (NLT)
God Remains Faithful

3 Then what’s the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the ceremony of circumcision? 2 Yes, there are great benefits! First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.

3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful? 4 Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him,

“You will be proved right in what you say,
and you will win your case in court.”

5 “But,” some might say, “our sinfulness serves a good purpose, for it helps people see how righteous God is. Isn’t it unfair, then, for him to punish us?” (This is merely a human point of view.) 6 Of course not! If God were not entirely fair, how would he be qualified to judge the world? 7 “But,” someone might still argue, “how can God condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?” 8 And some people even slander us by claiming that we say, “The more we sin, the better it is!” Those who say such things deserve to be condemned.
All People Are Sinners

9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,

“No one is righteous—
not even one.
11 No one is truly wise;
no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away;
all have become useless.
No one does good,
not a single one.”
13 “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their tongues are filled with lies.”
“Snake venom drips from their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “They rush to commit murder.
16 Destruction and misery always follow them.
17 They don’t know where to find peace.”
18 “They have no fear of God at all.”

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.
Christ Took Our Punishment

21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

Background: It is estimated that Romans was written approx 60 A.D (Roughly 30 years after the crucifixion), by Paul. It is a letter written by the Apostle Paul to the church in Rome at the time.



Questions:
1. What are your thoughts on what is said about the Jews at the start of the chapter? Where do you think they fit into Modern Day Christianity?
2. Paul describes people excusing their evil by saying the contrast makes God look greater. Do you think this is a fair justification? Why? Why not?
3. Do you find the Old Testament Law to still be relevant after the crucifixion and resurrection? Why? Why not?

Did any verses stand out to you?

Did this chapter raise any questions for you?

Basically, what the plan is, is for people participating to answer the questions, and bring in their own to act as a lead in for discussion. I will fill mine in tomorrow when I have a bit more focus to read the chapter again thoroughly.

[Neo Emolga]

Thank you for the mention. :)

Name: Neo Emolga
Why do you want to join the Bible Study: Haven't participated in one of these before, but it looks like it will help provide more understanding and insight to the Bible.
Favorite Bible Book: Psalms

As for Romans 3

1. What are your thoughts on what is said about the Jews at the start of the chapter? Where do you think they fit into Modern Day Christianity?

I think the basis this passage is making here is that while Jews were entrusted to spread the revelation of God, and we must do the same. In the same regard, we shouldn't look down on Jews, Gentiles, or anyone because of what they believe because we're all under the power of sin.

2. Paul describes people excusing their evil by saying the contrast makes God look greater. Do you think this is a fair justification? Why? Why not?

As the passages illustrate, this kind of "let me do evil so God looks better" thinking is just ridiculous. While sin is something we cannot escape from without the help of God and Jesus Christ, it is something we need to try and fight and resist as much as possible. Evil isn't something that should be excused. I feel in order to be forgiven, you've got to really regret your past decision, strive for better living, and have genuine want to achieve forgiveness. If you don't really make that effort, what does that say about you and what you've done?

3. Do you find the Old Testament Law to still be relevant after the crucifixion and resurrection? Why? Why not?

I'll admit, I've struggled with this one. Society, mankind, and civilization has changed so much since the Old Testament days and it makes it tricky to pinpoint which components of Old Testament regulation are still be applicable as well as trying to determine what new regulations might be necessary. For example, we don't sacrifice animals at the altar like what was done in Leviticus. Also, some of the smaller laws like no tattoos aren't really followed that much anymore, but for the most part, even the laws of old are still followed. We still look down upon incest, prostitution, and perversion.

Do any verses stand out to you?

This one:

23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

I think sacrificing one's self is the strongest show of love you could ever have for them. We live in a dangerous world filled with threats and dangers everywhere, but working together to overcome them regardless of what it takes is real, serious love and compassion. And this goes to show that it's not about who you are and what you've done, but more about what you've done for others and the things you've given up for them even when it hurt to do so.

Did this chapter raise any questions for you?

I sometimes wonder about how Jesus would react to some of the modern things we have today, such as news media, celebrities, technology, and the like. But it does seem like the end message is that these things can be used for both good and evil intentions. Today, we're using the internet to communicate and share our reflections on God and Jesus Christ, which wasn't something that was available even just a few decades ago. Despite the seas of misinformation and deception, we need to get creative to see how anything and everything can be used for good intentions and to glorify God.

[VeloJello]

Name: Velocity/Velo.
Why do you want to join the Bible Study: Since I tend to read the Bible chronologically and not terribly deeply, a good study should be helpful in getting more insight.
Favorite Bible Book: 1 Corinthians.

I'll post/edit in my commentary when I get the chance. XD

[[Desolate Divine]]

1. What are your thoughts on what is said about the Jews at the start of the chapter? Where do you think they fit into Modern Day Christianity?
I believe that they were once God's chosen race. However I believe that isn't the case any more. See, I believe that the laws of the Old Testament, the need for sacrifices and such was Plan A for redemption with God, and that the New Testament, Jesus' crucifixion, is Plan B. Plan A required the Jews to be God's chosen nation, but Plan B puts everyone on an equal playing field, not requiring them to be of Israel. In modern day Christianity I see Jews the same as everyone else. Every has sinned, but through grace, all have the chance of being made right with God. Being of his chosen nation doesn't make them any more or less deserving of it, seeing as nobody is deserving of it in the first place. It is by God's grace that we get that chance anyway.
2. Paul describes people excusing their evil by saying the contrast makes God look greater. Do you think this is a fair justification? Why? Why not?
Saying their sins are used to contrast how great God is is a human excuse. God and sin cannot coexist, therefore it is impossible, and in my eyes to compare God to sin even with the reason being to contrast them. You can justify it all you want. But in the end Sin is Sin, and Evil is Evil. Though God doesn't expect us to live perfect sin-free lives (as that is impossible) I believe he expects us to make the attempt, and to accept that we have done the wrong thing when we sin, not try to justify it, especially in His name.
3. Do you find the Old Testament Law to still be relevant after the crucifixion and resurrection? Why? Why not?
This is a tough one. In some scenarios, I dislike the old testament, as people who try to fight against what the Bible says use it out of context. When I do see ancient laws used out of context, I tend to refer to this:

Spoiler:

Matthew 22:36-40New Living Translation (NLT)

36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

In my eyes, Jesus has basically said that all other laws are insignificant compared to those about loving God and loving others. In my eyes the old laws that aren't about what Jesus decribes in those verses are gone. So it is still wrong to steal, lie, cheat etc like in the Old Testament, but it isn't wrong to wear clothes from two different types of material like in the Old Testament.

Did any verses stand out to you?
27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

Did this chapter raise any questions for you?
I struggled to understand what the court analogy/statement meant, but other than that it was pretty clear to me!

I agree with what you are saying about Jesus in the modern day Neo. I mean back when he was on earth, for people to hear him, they would walk a long way, and follow him around, standing in small confined spaces just to hear him speak. But now, when a new iPhone is revealed, thousands of people can watch it as it happens, from their own homes, hell, they don't even need to get out of bed. Back then, if someone had an opinion, it would only travel as far as it is spoken. Now, if I have an opinion, all I need to do is post it on Facebook or PXR for hundreds to see it. A few seconds of typing as opposed to going around and telling everyone. That can be used for both good and evil.

[VeloJello]

1. What are your thoughts on what is said about the Jews at the start of the chapter? Where do you think they fit into Modern Day Christianity?

This chapter reminds me of the early Old Testament. A lot of people forget that the Semitic peoples (I am substituting this term for "Jew", as "Jew" has more religious connotations, rather than the ancestral meaning that is being put forth) were chosen at the dawn of man to be God's chosen people. Paul is careful to remind his readers (see: Romans 1:16, Romans 2:10) that Semites will receive both judgement and blessings first, but still in just measurement. The Israelites were entrusted with God's word first, and they were chosen by God first, and they will be first to receive rewards and judgements.

2. Paul describes people excusing their evil by saying the contrast makes God look greater. Do you think this is a fair justification? Why? Why not?

No. Doing evil in God's name does not glorify God, which is what He wants from humanity. The only way in which a person can glorify God is to be a representation of His love and kindness in the world, not by deliberately sinning. Besides, a person who truly has love for God is very unlikely to deliberately sin against Him. If you love someone, you're not going to do something to offend them or annoy them in order to showcase how merciful and patient they are.

3. Do you find the Old Testament Law to still be relevant after the crucifixion and resurrection? Why? Why not?

Yes and no. The "yes" is lies in God's intent in setting up these laws - by closely studying Old Testament laws and their connotations, humans can become better acquainted with His nature. For an example, see Leviticus 19:19:

Spoiler:

19) “‘Keep my decrees.
“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

These three laws all deal with things of "two kinds" - although these laws may seem arbitrary, I believe that they have a deeper meaning - they deal with God's desire to keep His people holy, and that they are meant to illustrate how He does not want His people to be "two-faced". However, the law was meant to be a guideline for the Israelites until Christ came (see: Galatians 3:24). Also crucial to understanding this issue is Matthew 22, verses 37-40:

Spoiler:

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

To put it simply, the law means nothing if we do not love the Lord. Modern Christians are no longer bound by sacrificial laws, because Jesus has already sacrificed Himself. Nor are we bound by holiness laws (like the "two kinds" laws) because we are sanctified through Christ.

Did any verses stand out to you?
25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

Did this chapter raise any questions for you?
Just one: what was the purpose of the law period at all? Why exactly did Jesus come to the world when he did? It's not so much a disbelief question as a curiosity that I've often pondered.

(For reference, in my responses, I will be using the NIV translation when I add my own references)

[FedoraChar]

Hey, awesome, count me in! :D

Name: FedoraChar (you should know that I almost typed in Charmander009 xD)

Why do you want to join the Bible Study (No wrong answer. More a curiosity thing to help with picking what we study than anything else): Because I'd love to see what everyone's thoughts on the scriptures are, and learn more! ^^

Favorite Bible Book (If Applicable): Hmm, I'd have to say the Gospels--I love reading about the Savior's life and all he did and taught :)


I'll edit with my thoughts on this week's topic in a second ^^




XXXXXXXXXX



((As a quick note, I read the King James Version of the bible))

Questions:

1. What are your thoughts on what is said about the Jews at the start of the chapter? Where do you think they fit into Modern Day Christianity?

During this point in time, The Apostles are trying to teach the Christian-converted Jews that many of the practices and traditions of the Mosiac Law had been fulfilled in Christ and that now such things were not necessary any longer--now they had to start living the higher law that Christ had given them. All people, both Jew and Gentile, have access to Christ's Atonement, and all will need it.

The second question brings some beliefs that might be unique to my church: The Jews are the Covenant People of the Lord--they were the ones chosen to prepare the world for the coming of Christ--to prepare the world for His Gospel--and thus the keys and powers of the Gospel are their birthright. We believe that one day Israel will literally be gathered together and restored to the Gospel and to that right. "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first."

2. Paul describes people excusing their evil by saying the contrast makes God look greater. Do you think this is a fair justification? Why? Why not?

Actually, in my church today, someone shared an interesting thought on this, speaking from a quote that compared evil to cold and darkness (and I hope I can describe it in a way that makes sense, ha). Cold, they said, does not physically exist--it's described as the absence of heat. Darkness doesn't physically exist, either--it's the absence of light. Neither can described or measured as a form of matter or energy. In the same vein, evil does not exist to make God look greater--evil is the absence of God. Committing evil will not glorify God, but will only show how He is missing in the offender's life.

That being said... the people who speak such things are looking for justification for their behavior; they want to be able to do as they wish without consequence, but Paul is teaching here that such thinking is poisonous, that God is just and fair. If we desire to follow His teachings, we must be "dead... unto sin but alive unto God" (Romans 6:4,11). I think the best scripture that counters all this, however, is Luke 16:13 reads, "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."


3. Do you find the Old Testament Law to still be relevant after the crucifixion and resurrection? Why? Why not?

I wouldn't say that the Mosiac Law (or what you're calling the Old Testament Law) is irrelevant--rather, that it's been fulfilled. Every aspect of the old law was to prepare Israel and the world for the coming of Christ (to help them realize why they needed Christ's Atonement), and when He came, He taught us the higher law. No longer would we sacrifice up animals, but instead we would offer up a sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit. No longer was it "an eye for an eye", but a turning of the other cheek. Everything that was changed we can find in Matthew 5--the sermon on the mount.


Did any verses stand out to you?

Verse 20: "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Here, Paul is essentially teaching that the little practices of the Mosaic Law are not necessary for salvation; that its existence was to teach of sin and show us why Christ's Atonement is needed in our lives.


Did this chapter raise any questions for you?

Well, Paul's writing is always a little tricky to understand, but I think I have the gist of it?

[[Desolate Divine]]

Week 2: 1 Peter 4

Spoiler:

1 Peter 4 (NLT)
1 Peter 4 New Living Translation (NLT)
Living for God

4 So then, since Christ suffered physical pain, you must arm yourselves with the same attitude he had, and be ready to suffer, too. For if you have suffered physically for Christ, you have finished with sin.[a] 2 You won’t spend the rest of your lives chasing your own desires, but you will be anxious to do the will of God. 3 You have had enough in the past of the evil things that godless people enjoy—their immorality and lust, their feasting and drunkenness and wild parties, and their terrible worship of idols.

4 Of course, your former friends are surprised when you no longer plunge into the flood of wild and destructive things they do. So they slander you. 5 But remember that they will have to face God, who stands ready to judge everyone, both the living and the dead. 6 That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead[b]—so although they were destined to die like all people,[c] they now live forever with God in the Spirit.[d]

7 The end of the world is coming soon. Therefore, be earnest and disciplined in your prayers. 8 Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins. 9 Cheerfully share your home with those who need a meal or a place to stay.

10 God has given each of you a gift from his great variety of spiritual gifts. Use them well to serve one another. 11 Do you have the gift of speaking? Then speak as though God himself were speaking through you. Do you have the gift of helping others? Do it with all the strength and energy that God supplies. Then everything you do will bring glory to God through Jesus Christ. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.
Suffering for Being a Christian

12 Dear friends, don’t be surprised at the fiery trials you are going through, as if something strange were happening to you. 13 Instead, be very glad—for these trials make you partners with Christ in his suffering, so that you will have the wonderful joy of seeing his glory when it is revealed to all the world.

14 If you are insulted because you bear the name of Christ, you will be blessed, for the glorious Spirit of God[e] rests upon you.[f] 15 If you suffer, however, it must not be for murder, stealing, making trouble, or prying into other people’s affairs. 16 But it is no shame to suffer for being a Christian. Praise God for the privilege of being called by his name! 17 For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News? 18 And also,

“If the righteous are barely saved,
what will happen to godless sinners?”[g]

19 So if you are suffering in a manner that pleases God, keep on doing what is right, and trust your lives to the God who created you, for he will never fail you.

Background:
In the year 64 A.D Roman emperor Nero set fire to Rome, to create room for marble monuments to cement his name in history, destroying thousands of homes in the process. At this point in history, Christians were already under a lot of suspicions, and Nero passed the blame of the fire onto them, punishing them cruelly.

Questions:
1. Are there any links between whats described in this and our current world that stand out to you? (For example Christians being persecuted?)
2. This chapter describes the end of the world and says it's coming soon. What are your thoughts on the circumstance of the end?


Did any verses stand out to you?

Did this chapter raise any questions for you?
@Velocity @FedoraChar @Neo Emolga Week 2 is up!

Just so you know, if you would like to run one weeks study, I am all for it. Frankly, I am slightly struggling for content (Strange, because I have a long list of verses I like), and will appreciate anyone wanting to have some more input haha