Scoring and judging discussion

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Original proposal:

JUDGING

Judges should provide feedback to all participants after each challenge and must have a clear grading rubric.
Judges will be assigned 100 points to distribute among the entries, with the best entry receiving the biggest share of points, etc. Each entry must receive at least 1 point, but it is otherwise up to the judge to distribute.
Judging could potentially include other awards such as "people's choice", "most improved", etc.that do not give out any points, but that members can vote on as an extra thing so more people can get recognition.
Judges cannot participate in their section, but will receive points for submitting their judging each week in a timely manner.
Judges should submit their 4 week plan for their section (number of challenges, what each challenge is) before PXFIRE begins.


How to use this system with a rubric:


I don't think 100 points is that hard to distribute. You can still use a rubric. The points you give out don't have to match the rubric points, but you could do it that way with a bit of maths if you wanted.

A gets 15/20 on the rubric
B gets 5/20
C gets 15/20
D gets 16/20
E gets 16/20
F gets 20/20
G gets 12/20

Max total of rubric = 7 x 20 = 140
A got 15/140 = 10.7%. 10.7% of 100 = 10.7 points awarded.
B got 5/140 = 3.5%. 3.5% of 100 = 3.5 points awarded.
Etc.

This is the current idea for how judging could work. We already had some discussion on this in the other thread. Now we have to make a decision. If you have a different/additional idea for how judging could/should work then please post it here and we can discuss it! Try and post your proposal in dot points and make it as brief/clear as possible so we can discuss it! :)

Speed-X Morzone
I know you guys had some alternative ideas :) Would you still like to pursue them?

[Morzone]

Mostly my ideas involved the participation stuff, I actually quite like this method.

The only thing I'm worried about is that, if we get a large number of entries, the judge won't be able to give out the amount of points they feel some entries should get. Judging the creative writing for instance, we've been told that several times there've been very close, very good, entries. If we have too many of those kind of entries, they'd all get stuck with something like "14 points" even though the quality of the work is something several points higher.

Would it be possible for judges to have a method to request the ability to give out a small amount of additional points if a time like this arises? I'd imagine they'd have to appeal to the admins, and obviously this would be allowed Very sparingly and only if the admins truly agree they deserve more points than the limit allows them to get.

[AD]

Ugh, math, we meet again...

One of the reasons why i was hesitant about judging. But, i am pretty sure if I approach in a manner such as the judges in the Pokemon Contests, i will be less freaked by numbers.

[Soups]

Mostly my ideas involved the participation stuff, I actually quite like this method.

The only thing I'm worried about is that, if we get a large number of entries, the judge won't be able to give out the amount of points they feel some entries should get. Judging the creative writing for instance, we've been told that several times there've been very close, very good, entries. If we have too many of those kind of entries, they'd all get stuck with something like "14 points" even though the quality of the work is something several points higher.

Would it be possible for judges to have a method to request the ability to give out a small amount of additional points if a time like this arises? I'd imagine they'd have to appeal to the admins, and obviously this would be allowed Very sparingly and only if the admins truly agree they deserve more points than the limit allows them to get.

I'm fine with the proposed judging system; however, you bring up a valid point. If a situation like that arises, it would be best for the judge to get into contact with PXFIRE Leaders ASAP to figure out a resolution. I think 100 points is the right call though, because while you MAY get an overwhelming amount of entries, you're more likely to receive an amount that isn't too overwhelming... and I'm making that assumption based on the activity PXR sees on a daily basis. We're more of a relaxed, slower moving community, so PXFIRE activity will probably reflect that (it may actually see a slight rise).

[Morzone]

Yeah, 100 points should definitely be enough most -if not all- of the time. I was just thinking of times like at the start of a roleplay where you have a lot of really good players, and the points limit would be, well, limiting. Like I said, it's a "just in case" measure.

Though at the same time, we might have the opposite problem if we have too few entries. Sticking with the roleplay, while the beginning always has a large number of pretty skilled layers, by the end you're likely to have dropped down to very few. The last week in WAR II I only got the bronze points was because I was the third of three posters. If the entries at that point aren't really worth 30+ points to meet the 100, should A judge be able to give out less?

[Soups]

Yeah, 100 points should definitely be enough most -if not all- of the time. I was just thinking of times like at the start of a roleplay where you have a lot of really good players, and the points limit would be, well, limiting. Like I said, it's a "just in case" measure.

Though at the same time, we might have the opposite problem if we have too few entries. Sticking with the roleplay, while the beginning always has a large number of pretty skilled layers, by the end you're likely to have dropped down to very few. The last week in WAR II I only got the bronze points was because I was the third of three posters. If the entries at that point aren't really worth 30+ points to meet the 100, should A judge be able to give out less?

I understand. I feel like this is an issue that can only be solved if we knew the exact amount of members that are going to partake in PXFIRE, which events they'll participate in, and how active they'll be... which is impossible. I think the safest way to go is to have an emergency stash of points. Maybe an extra 100? Let's say Entry A is the clear-cut winner, but you can't reward it the amount of points it's truly worth because you HAVE to split the 100 you have between the other entries (which may give other great entries less points as well). What do you do? Well, you'd be able to tap into your emergency stash of points. Of course you'd have to contact the PXFIRE leaders beforehand to get their approval. I think it's some form of a solution.

[Neo Emolga]

Yeah, 100 points should definitely be enough most -if not all- of the time. I was just thinking of times like at the start of a roleplay where you have a lot of really good players, and the points limit would be, well, limiting. Like I said, it's a "just in case" measure.

Though at the same time, we might have the opposite problem if we have too few entries. Sticking with the roleplay, while the beginning always has a large number of pretty skilled layers, by the end you're likely to have dropped down to very few. The last week in WAR II I only got the bronze points was because I was the third of three posters. If the entries at that point aren't really worth 30+ points to meet the 100, should A judge be able to give out less?

Definitely a viable concern, but the only thing is then we'd have to work in a system that bases points awarded depending on the number of players. Which IS possible, but it gets complicated.

One thing about a situation where only a few people are taking part. Sure, you'll have fewer people getting more points, but this rewards them for taking part in something where most people didn't. And the better they do, the more they'll get rewarded for it. The people that stick with it through every week will get more of an income from it, which is good.

As for the flip situation where there's a lot of people only earning small shares, this isn't a bad thing either. It encourages people to put in more effort if they can so they earn more. Or if the entry process seems easy, this will even things out a bit compared to some of the other "tougher to enter" sections.

Hence, this is kind of why I say keep it at 100.

[Morzone]

I did consider that if people were willing to stick it out when others weren't they would probably deserve more points for it anyway so...

It's fine! I like the 100 point system, and to be honest I don't think we'll have too much of a problem with having too many/too little participation. I just wanted to make sure the possibility was recognized before hand in case it came up and we got complaints about receiving so few points even if a judge went on and on about how great the entry was.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Definitely a viable concern, but the only thing is then we'd have to work in a system that bases points awarded depending on the number of players. Which IS possible, but it gets complicated.
Yeah, my issue with this is it's possible to game the system by having your team enter one really amazing entry and then everyone else submits a joke entry so now there are more participants and therefore more points awarded and their #1 entry can get more overall points.

But maybe I'm the only one who would find loopholes like that xDD

If all the events give out the same number of points, it'll encourage people to enter all the different events rather than sticking to one or two that might be more "profitable". Then we hopefully won't have too many events where not many people enter.

We could also make it that judges don't have to award the WHOLE 100 points if they feel the entries didn't deserve it. And we could also have a limit on the maximum points that can be awarded to one entry, like say 30 or 35 points or something. That way say only 1 or 2 people enter drawn art, they're not getting 50+ points just cos no one else entered.

[Caite-chan]

I know Speed had said something about how she would have her own method of scoring because of the way the GFX section would be. And that is fine but you can grade the way you want and then from there take the 100 points and distribute them between the entries.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Alright so this is what I'm thinking, so that we can go ahead and recruit judges:


JUDGING

Judges should provide feedback to all participants after each challenge and must have a clear grading rubric.
Judges will be assigned 100 points to distribute among the entries, with the best entry receiving the biggest share of points, etc. Each entry must receive at least 1 point, but it is otherwise up to the judge to distribute.
No single entry may receive more than 35 points. (Therefore not all points must be awarded if there are too few entries.)
Judges cannot participate in their section, but will receive points for submitting their judging each week in a timely manner.
Judges should submit their 4 week plan for their section (number of challenges, what each challenge is) before PXFIRE begins.


We could drop the bold rule if there is no issues with participation... What do you guys think?

Participation recognition could be handled perhaps by having separate ranks that aren't worth more points but can get you a token or a cool postbit thing? I know I did this for Team Trainer. By participating in at least one thing each week you would reach the maximum rank. We could either award medals for participating in any event at least once per week, or alternatively, medals for participating at least once in each event. But that's something we can still sort out once we have judges. :)

Any comments or ideas?

[Soups]

I see no issue with the bold rule. It's fair and it's a great safety net. I still think it would be easier to let the teams themselves reward their members for participation.

[Morzone]

when you say that judges will receive points for submitting their judging in a timely manner, how do you define a "timely manner" and how many points would they get? Other than clearing that up I think it all looks good.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

when you say that judges will receive points for submitting their judging in a timely manner, how do you define a "timely manner" and how many points would they get? Other than clearing that up I think it all looks good.

Usually there will be a deadline every week as to when the judges need to submit scores by. Generally a few days after submissions close. So if the events run from Sunday to Saturday, then the judges could have until Tuesday or something to judge and submit scores. If they don't get the scores in on time then it's not such a big deal except they won't get the points. I'm not really sure how many points are fair... any ideas?

[Morzone]

Maybe...

If the judge can get the results out within 24 hours of the closing they get 20 points, if they do it within 48 hours they get 10 points, outside that they don't get any?

[Soups]

Maybe...

If the judge can get the results out within 24 hours of the closing they get 20 points, if they do it within 48 hours they get 10 points, outside that they don't get any?

Personally, I don't think we should give points for judging... While it's important to submit the results in a timely manner, I wouldn't want to see any judge rush through judging simply because they'll receive more points, you know? I'm not saying that WILL happen, but if there are points on the table... You catch my drift?

It's cool if we do though.

[Neo Emolga]

Personally, I don't think we should give points for judging... While it's important to submit the results in a timely manner, I wouldn't want to see any judge rush through judging simply because they'll receive more points, you know? I'm not saying that WILL happen, but if there are points on the table... You catch my drift?

It's cool if we do though.

Ehhhh... give judges points. Otherwise their motivation will wane quickly and they may drop out after they get tired of working for free. It also discourages people from judging when they could not judge any sections at all and simply take part in the section themselves. At least if you give them points, it's a motivation to do a good job, submit results on time, stick with it for the entire length of PXFIRE, and thank them for their time and dedication, especially after giving up the chance of participating in that section themselves.

[Soups]

Ehhhh... give judges points. Otherwise their motivation will wane quickly and they may drop out after they get tired of working for free. It also discourages people from judging when they could not judge any sections at all and simply take part in the section themselves. At least if you give them points, it's a motivation to do a good job, submit results on time, stick with it for the entire length of PXFIRE, and thank them for their time and dedication, especially after giving up the chance of participating in that section themselves.

Hm... I didn't think of it that way. Both sides could be argued, but I see your point. The pros outweigh the cons if we give judges points.

[Neo Emolga]

Hm... I didn't think of it that way. Both sides could be argued, but I see your point. The pros outweigh the cons if we give judges points.



I'd say go with Morzone's plan. 20 points if you do everything on time. 10 points if you're late, and nothing if you're super-late or don't post results at all.

I would say the deadline is Midnight on Monday night (we just need to decide on the timezone we're going with but usually it's EST). Results have to be in before then to get the full amount of judging points. I like Morzone's plan where if you're late but not by 24 hours, you can still get half the amount for 10. After that, you get zip (and risk having your judging hijacked by a PXFIRE leader who can declare winners and set the next week's theme AND/OR possibly get replaced).

In the past, I set a judging plan where it goes like this:

MONDAY-FRIDAY: Standard time for submissions. There will definitely be no judging here.

SATURDAY: Last minute submissions. If you submit something before the section is judged, it counts. However, judging CAN happen on this day as well, and if the judge posts results before you submit, boom, you're too late.

SUNDAY: Submissions for the week are over. Judging now happens, but once judging for the week is done and the judge has posted the next theme, it's open season for submissions again.

This gives plenty of time for submissions and gives judges the weekend to get results up. We've used it before and I feel it's a pretty solid and fair system.

For things like RP where posting never really stops, the judge can decide where the cutoff is between what counts for last week and what counts for the next week.

[Morzone]

When looking for a roleplay judge we'll have to make sure they tell us when their cutoff will be each week ahead of time so we can make sure they stick to it instead of trying to worm in extra points when they were slow at posting results.

Alternatively we could say the cutoff is a certain time every week and make it standard across the board. (like 5 PM on saturday or something)

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

As someone who it is not summer time for, I always disliked that war wouldn't give you the weekend to work on stuff (the only time I had free). xD I always ended up rushing to enter things on the Saturday, hoping judging would be late haha. So I like your plan Neo, but personally I'd rather the event was posted on Sunday (which is Monday for me) and didn't close until midnight Saturday (which is around midday Sunday for me) and then judges can have Sunday, Monday and Tuesday to judge. That way purple in different timezone will still get some weekend time to enter.

And yeah I think judges need points especially since they can't enter the section themselves.

[Soups]

I'd say go with Morzone's plan. 20 points if you do everything on time. 10 points if you're late, and nothing if you're super-late or don't post results at all.

I would say the deadline is Midnight on Monday night (we just need to decide on the timezone we're going with but usually it's EST). Results have to be in before then to get the full amount of judging points. I like Morzone's plan where if you're late but not by 24 hours, you can still get half the amount for 10. After that, you get zip (and risk having your judging hijacked by a PXFIRE leader who can declare winners and set the next week's theme AND/OR possibly get replaced).

In the past, I set a judging plan where it goes like this:

MONDAY-FRIDAY: Standard time for submissions. There will definitely be no judging here.

SATURDAY: Last minute submissions. If you submit something before the section is judged, it counts. However, judging CAN happen on this day as well, and if the judge posts results before you submit, boom, you're too late.

SUNDAY: Submissions for the week are over. Judging now happens, but once judging for the week is done and the judge has posted the next theme, it's open season for submissions again.

This gives plenty of time for submissions and gives judges the weekend to get results up. We've used it before and I feel it's a pretty solid and fair system.

For things like RP where posting never really stops, the judge can decide where the cutoff is between what counts for last week and what counts for the next week.

I like it. I would say that we shouldn't allow last minute submissions (considering the fact that judges may already be in the process of judging on Saturday), but eh... why not? xD

[Caite-chan]

So this got me thinking while I was replying to one of the other threads. We know we get people who join teams and then don't even do anything throughout the whole event. Do you think we could take points away from teams for people who don't do anything? This could be an incentive to make sure all team members participate in at least one event each week. I mean come on if you can't even do Humor then why even bother to join. That is the easiest event of all and takes little to no effort to do. Everyone should be able to do that.

[Neo Emolga]

As someone who it is not summer time for, I always disliked that war wouldn't give you the weekend to work on stuff (the only time I had free). xD I always ended up rushing to enter things on the Saturday, hoping judging would be late haha. So I like your plan Neo, but personally I'd rather the event was posted on Sunday (which is Monday for me) and didn't close until midnight Saturday (which is around midday Sunday for me) and then judges can have Sunday, Monday and Tuesday to judge. That way purple in different timezone will still get some weekend time to enter.

And yeah I think judges need points especially since they can't enter the section themselves.

Hmm, I guess we could do that instead. As long as judges get at least two days to do things. Otherwise I think only having one day to do it would be hard if they just happen to be busy on that date.


So this got me thinking while I was replying to one of the other threads. We know we get people who join teams and then don't even do anything throughout the whole event. Do you think we could take points away from teams for people who don't do anything? This could be an incentive to make sure all team members participate in at least one event each week. I mean come on if you can't even do Humor then why even bother to join. That is the easiest event of all and takes little to no effort to do. Everyone should be able to do that.

I'm... not too crazy about that idea. Because I think you'll still have people not doing anything and that makes it even worse for the team that keeps losing points because they have inactive members. Imagine being a team leader, PMing and VMing the same inactive people to do something and they still don't even though the rest of the team gave it their all and tried to motivate the inactive people? And now you're getting points taken away. Teammates becoming inactive is usually never the rest of the team's fault, that's just other people getting distracted by other things. But by taking points away from them, you're punishing them for something that was beyond their control. They're already taking a blow by having some people not doing anything and not you're taking points away from the people that are.

On top of that, people could have a good reason for going inactive. Family emergencies, vacations, sickness, and many other reasons could prevent them from taking part. It's really meant to be a fun community game, not something people have to give up their own summer for.

[Caite-chan]

I guess it could be a question we add to the sign up sheet. I always hated when people would sign up and then do absolutely nothing and taking up a spot someone else could have. Especially if we're going to try to make the teams even.

[Neo Emolga]

I guess it could be a question we add to the sign up sheet. I always hated when people would sign up and then do absolutely nothing and taking up a spot someone else could have. Especially if we're going to try to make the teams even.

It is a pain, I won't deny that, but it's the nature of the beast. You can't really punish someone who just isn't there.

Asking about possible absence time in advance seems like a good idea, though. It's fair and reasonable. Team Leaders may factor that in when making their draft choices, also. I know I would if I were a Team Leader and this was how we were handling member recruitment.

[Soups]

So this got me thinking while I was replying to one of the other threads. We know we get people who join teams and then don't even do anything throughout the whole event. Do you think we could take points away from teams for people who don't do anything? This could be an incentive to make sure all team members participate in at least one event each week. I mean come on if you can't even do Humor then why even bother to join. That is the easiest event of all and takes little to no effort to do. Everyone should be able to do that.

While I understand where you're coming from, I don't necessarily think we should take the route... It's impossible to predict who will actually participate. It shouldn't be a team's fault that a member isn't participating, especially when the teams WON'T be selecting its own members. They have to take whoever is drafted to them, so they shouldn't be punished for it if those that are drafted don't participate.

Maybe we can give out an award to a team that has the most members participate though. Nothing that will effect the actual PXFIRE results, but a fun, quirky award or something.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Yeah I don't think it's right to punish people who don't participate. The team is already kinda punished sadly as they will have one less active person than other teams (as the numbers will be even). But we should still encourage everyone to join in even if they only participate in a couple events or whatever.

And yeah I wanna give the judges plenty of time to score things. It doesn't even matter if they have 3-4 days IMO, as long as the next challenge is posted on the sunday. (We can ensure this by making sure the judges submit their schedules ahead of time, so if they can't be on for some reason, someone else can post the challenge).

[Soups]

Yeah I don't think it's right to punish people who don't participate. The team is already kinda punished sadly as they will have one less active person than other teams (as the numbers will be even). But we should still encourage everyone to join in even if they only participate in a couple events or whatever.

And yeah I wanna give the judges plenty of time to score things. It doesn't even matter if they have 3-4 days IMO, as long as the next challenge is posted on the sunday. (We can ensure this by making sure the judges submit their schedules ahead of time, so if they can't be on for some reason, someone else can post the challenge).

Hell, even if they only participate in one. While it is a competition, having fun is still the most important aspect and we can't forget that.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Okay I made a draft Judge Applications thread. Let me know what you guys think!




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/pokemontrainersarah/pxfire-logo1.png

[PXFIRE] Judge Applications

Hi everyone! The PXFIRE planning team have been finalising details for the big event and we are now ready to open judge applications! Here's what you need to know!

Sections and events!
PXFIRE will run over 4 weeks. We are hoping to be ready to start by July! During that time there will be 8 main events: drawing, graphic art, spriting, roleplaying, creative writing, comics, showdown battling, humour. Each section will run a number of events of a certain duration. For example, sprite art might run three events each over one week, while creative writing runs two events, each over two weeks (to give people more time to enter). It will be up to the judges to come up with their own schedule and events (to be approved by the PXFIRE leaders)!

How judging works!
At the end of each event, the judge will be required to grade each entry and give feedback. The judge will then distribute points so that each entry gets at least 1 point, with the "best" entries recieving a larger share of points. We expect judges will embrace the central tenet of PXFIRE, that participation and effort should be rewarded, when distributing points. These points go toward your team total! Judges will need to complete the grading within a limited time (usually 2-3 days) and if submitted on time will also earn points for their team!

Judge duties!
As a judge you will need to have the time to grade entries in a limited time and be sure that you will be around for the duration of the event (July 2nd to July 30th at this stage). If something comes up or you know in advance that you will be away for one or more of those weeks we can possibly have two judges, so if you are very interested in judging you may still apply, just let us know your availability. Please be honest about this as judging is probably the most important part of the event and if we have people just drop out it will be very disruptive. :(

Before the event starts, we will require all judges to submit their plan for their section, so you will need to have some time before July to get this sorted! This includes the timeline (how many challenges and how long they go for) and the theme and rules for each challenge. You will also need to have your section thread written up and ready to go before the event begins. We would like to have all of this information before PXFIRE starts so if a judge can't be online for some reason, we can still make sure the challenges are posted on time!

For an example of how judging can be done and the kinds of themes/challenges, you can check out some of the old WAR threads, links to which can be found by clicking here. (http://www.pokemoncrossroads.com/forum/showthread.php?6425-WAR-Season-II-Information-and-Links-&%239733;READ-FIRST&%239733;)

The details on sections and judging can be found in the spoiler below.


SECTIONS

Challenges from the following sections will be included: drawing, graphic art, spriting, roleplaying, creative writing, comics, showdown battling, humour.
Additional, random pop-up challenges offering only participation points will also be offered, such as puzzles or games.
Some sections may run multiple challenges throughout the 3-4 week period and some may have only one challenge, etc.



JUDGING

Judges should provide feedback to all participants after each challenge and must have a clear grading rubric.
Judges will be assigned 100 points to distribute among the entries, with the best entry receiving the biggest share of points, etc. Each entry must receive at least 1 point, but it is otherwise up to the judge to distribute.
No single entry may receive more than 35 points. (Therefore not all points must be awarded if there are too few entries.)
Judges cannot participate in their section, but will receive points for submitting their judging each week in a timely manner (within ~3 days, timeline is still being decided)
Judges should submit their 4 week plan for their section (number of challenges, what each challenge is) before PXFIRE begins.



How to apply!
To apply to judge, just fill out this form and post it here. :) The PXFIRE leaders will select judges. If you want to apply for multiple sections then you may but keep in mind we will only allow each individual to judge one section as it is a lot of work!


Username:

Which section would you like to judge?:

What is your availability like from now until July?

Please note any experience you have with judging/grading things or with giving constructive criticism that would help your judging:

Please outline an example challenge for your section (You don't have to use this if selected).
Include the rules and duration of the challenge. 3-5 sentences is fine!

JUDGE APPLICATIONS CLOSE MAY 31ST

[AD]

Damn, it looks nice. The symmetry, the clear and concise paragraphs, very appealing to the eyes. I actually read all of it and i am usually tl;dr.

[Neo Emolga]

Damn, it looks nice. The symmetry, the clear and concise paragraphs, very appealing to the eyes. I actually read all of it and i am usually tl;dr.

I second this. Sarah, you definitely have that magic touch. XD

[Soups]

I approve, Sarah. It looks great.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Alright the judge applications thread is up :) Feel free to apply if any of you would like to judge!

[EmeraldSky]

Already posted mine, with a detailed explanation of how GWEA world work

[Neo Emolga]

I'm... getting a bit worried about our lack of judge applications. If need be, I don't mind judging two sections and I could sign up to be the one for graphic art, also, but taking up a third one after that would be very risky and I don't know if I could pull that off.

[Morzone]

Yeah, it was worrying me too...
I might sign up as a drawing judge if nothing else comes up but... *sighs*

[Caite-chan]

Might want to leave it open a bit longer to give people more time. Or even drop a section or two to make it look less desprite.

[Neo Emolga]

Yeah, it was worrying me too...
I might sign up as a drawing judge if nothing else comes up but... *sighs*

Well, if we have Creative Writing, Humor, RP, Graphic Art, and Drawn Art, that's already a good start and that covers most of the core areas save for maybe sprite/pixel art. After that, we'd need a few people to host several participation events for those extra points.


Might want to leave it open a bit longer to give people more time. Or even drop a section or two to make it look less desprite.

There's still one more week so we'll see what happens when we start to get to the end of it. But yeah, it might be a good idea to have a Plan B just in case. If no one volunteers to be graphic art judge when the end of the next week comes around, I'll volunteer to do it. I already have a good idea as to what I'd like to do with RP.

[Soups]

I'm a bit concerned as well, but I'm going to wait a few more days. If need be, I'll volunteer to be a judge. I wouldn't mind it.

[Morzone]

I thought we had someone already lined up for running the showdown section as well?

[Caite-chan]

Why don't we just have ONE Art section where anyone can do any type of art and then we only need to find one Art judge. We honestly need to start small and work our way up for the next time we do this. We shouldn't be afraid to drop a section or two if we need to instead of worrying about trying to find someone to cover it or putting more work on others.

[Morzone]

hmm... well the only problem with that is combining different art into one section makes it hard to judge. For instance, I could judge drawing and MAYBE graphic art, but I wouldn't have a clue how to properly judge pixel art. It would mostly end up being "Hey that one looks cool and complicated, you get the most points!" Its hard to find a judge with enough experience in all the various art styles to be able to judge properly.

Still, its a fair back-up plan if we don't get enough judges.

Also, is Sacred Fire planning to judge showdown? I sort of assumed they were with the way they were talking earlier about different types of ways to battle for points.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Hmm yeah it is a bit of a shame...

If we don't get judges for some stuff, we should probably cut a few things. Graphic art, comics, showdown and humour are probably up there. :/ I think Speed-X wanted to judge sprite art but it depends if she'll be around during the event.

I don't think we want people to have to judge 2 things unless it's 100% necessary as it'd be so much work and they might struggle to also enter stuff. Better to cut back on events, I think. I'll start contacting some of the mods though and seeing if they're interested in judging at all.

[Soups]

Why don't we just have ONE Art section where anyone can do any type of art and then we only need to find one Art judge. We honestly need to start small and work our way up for the next time we do this. We shouldn't be afraid to drop a section or two if we need to instead of worrying about trying to find someone to cover it or putting more work on others.

I'm not too familiar with the different forms of art, but if it's possible, I agree. It would surely help to lighten the load.


Hmm yeah it is a bit of a shame...

If we don't get judges for some stuff, we should probably cut a few things. Graphic art, comics, showdown and humour are probably up there. :/ I think Speed-X wanted to judge sprite art but it depends if she'll be around during the event.

I don't think we want people to have to judge 2 things unless it's 100% necessary as it'd be so much work and they might struggle to also enter stuff. Better to cut back on events, I think. I'll start contacting some of the mods though and seeing if they're interested in judging at all.

Well, let's decide what we absolutely CAN'T cut and then go from there. I personally believe that we should have five categories. Creative Writing, Humor, Graphic Art, Drawn Art, and RP would be my suggestions, only because I feel as though those are the areas that will draw the most attention. Therefore, we'd only need five judges as well. If we go with Caite's suggestion, we could combine all of the types of art into one category and maybe have two judges for it. In total, we'd need about six judges.

As for side events... that's where it gets tricky.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Hmm I don't think it's really possible to combine the art sections, they're really different and it would be really hard to judge. :( I think sprite art and drawing will get more action than graphic art considering our user base, so if we cut an art, it should probably be graphic art. The participation events should be fine, it's more worrying about whether we'll get enough entries in the other sections. If there doesn't seem to be much interest when we start sign ups for teams then we may have to consider cutting down sections (like only running creative writing once or drawn art twice, etc.) That will allow us to cover the judging easier as well as there will be less rounds.

[LKWayvern]

We could create a poll of some kind and see which kinds of art, and which areas in general, hold the most appeal for active members of the forum, and cut things based off of that.

[Soups]

Hmm I don't think it's really possible to combine the art sections, they're really different and it would be really hard to judge. :( I think sprite art and drawing will get more action than graphic art considering our user base, so if we cut an art, it should probably be graphic art. The participation events should be fine, it's more worrying about whether we'll get enough entries in the other sections. If there doesn't seem to be much interest when we start sign ups for teams then we may have to consider cutting down sections (like only running creative writing once or drawn art twice, etc.) That will allow us to cover the judging easier as well as there will be less rounds.

Okay. If that's the case, we can have Creative Writing, RP, Humor, Sprite Art, and Drawn Art. On the side, we'll have mini-events for participation (which shouldn't be difficult to run).

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Okay. If that's the case, we can have Creative Writing, RP, Humor, Sprite Art, and Drawn Art. On the side, we'll have mini-events for participation (which shouldn't be difficult to run).

Yeah that sounds good if we need to cut back!

LKWayvern Good idea on the poll. I'm not sure how many people will respond but it's worth a try. I made one here
http://www.pokemoncrossroads.com/forum/showthread.php?14162-PXFIRE-Which-sections-would-you-participate-in

Feel free to vote and post in that thread so it gets some attention!

[Morzone]

Really? I thought Graphic art would get more people than spriting. (I don't hang around the spriting threads much though, to be honest) But I remember that, Back in WAR, most of the people who did drawing drew using photoshop and similar programs. And most everyone who did that was also part of graphic art. There's still quite a large base for people who want to do graphic art.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Really? I thought Graphic art would get more people than spriting. (I don't hang around the spriting threads much though, to be honest) But I remember that, Back in WAR, most of the people who did drawing drew using photoshop and similar programs. And most everyone who did that was also part of graphic art. There's still quite a large base for people who want to do graphic art.

There aren't many people spriting here at the moment but we have lots of members who can sprite. xD For WAR, there were only like 4-5 entries per week for graphic art and 10+ for sprite art. But yeah I mean if we get judges, we can do both. If Speed judges sprite art then I can maybe do graphic art.

[EmeraldSky]

Already added my vote to the poll

[Neo Emolga]

I would be bummed if graphic art was left out. I could switch to that if someone else does RP. I'm definitely willing to negotiate if it means keeping both sections in this.

I couldn't judge sprite art, though. But I'm sure there's someone out there that could do that too.

[Soups]

I would be bummed if graphic art was left out. I could switch to that if someone else does RP. I'm definitely willing to negotiate if it means keeping both sections in this.

I couldn't judge sprite art, though. But I'm sure there's someone out there that could do that too.

Hm... How about we run with Creative Writing, RP, Graphic Art, Sprite Art, and Drawn Art and find someway to incorporate Humor into the mini-events? Or maybe we could combine Humor with Creative Writing? Maybe Week 1 and Week 2 could be whatever the Creative Writing judge has in store and Week 3 and Week 4 could have something to do with humor?

I'm just throwing out suggestions. xD

[AD]

Sorry for my absence, have been having a hectic few months lately. And I don't know if i will be able to judge now, because of some personal matters that has come up. Though, i will look at the WAR judging and see how easy/hard it is.

If Showdown gets cut, i will be heartbroken, but i understand lol

[Neo Emolga]

So with the time limit for judge applications up, I jumped into judge applications and here's what we have:

HUMOR: EmeraldSky
CREATIVE WRITING: LKWayvern, Noblejanobii, Chakramaster
ROLEPLAYING: Neo Emolga, Noblejanobii
SPRITE ART: Noblejanobii
DRAWN ART: Chakramaster
GRAPHIC ART: Chakramaster

I would say finalize it as this:

HUMOR: EmeraldSky
CREATIVE WRITING: LKWayvern
ROLEPLAYING: Neo Emolga
SPRITE ART: Noblejanobii
DRAWN/GRAPHIC ART: Chakramaster

For the art, we may need to make it a hybrid version and say you CAN use Photoshop, but all the character art HAS to be your own. Which means if you want to do a banner with Pikachu, that's great! But you gotta draw that Chu yourself. No using anime shots or Sugimori's stuff as your render. To me, this could work and it would be interesting to try. But yeah, since we only have one applicant for both art sections, we may need to do something like this.

What do you guys think?

[Soups]

I approve.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

So with the time limit for judge applications up, I jumped into judge applications and here's what we have:

HUMOR: EmeraldSky
CREATIVE WRITING: LKWayvern, Noblejanobii, Chakramaster
ROLEPLAYING: Neo Emolga, Noblejanobii
SPRITE ART: Noblejanobii
DRAWN ART: Chakramaster
GRAPHIC ART: Chakramaster

I would say finalize it as this:

HUMOR: EmeraldSky
CREATIVE WRITING: LKWayvern
ROLEPLAYING: Neo Emolga
SPRITE ART: Noblejanobii
DRAWN/GRAPHIC ART: Chakramaster

For the art, we may need to make it a hybrid version and say you CAN use Photoshop, but all the character art HAS to be your own. Which means if you want to do a banner with Pikachu, that's great! But you gotta draw that Chu yourself. No using anime shots or Sugimori's stuff as your render. To me, this could work and it would be interesting to try. But yeah, since we only have one applicant for both art sections, we may need to do something like this.

What do you guys think?

Darn how did I miss this xD That list looks good Neo. Let's go with it!

I think it might be best for Chakra to do Drawn Art though and I can do Graphic Art myself. I just feel like it's too hard to judge if they're combined. Like if someone does a meh Pikachu drawing but makes an AWESOME banner but then someone does an amazing Pikachu drawing, who would win? xD

I'll PM them all and let them know what the next step is (to come up with their 4 week plan for the section). I'll also give them access to this board so they can post stuff here :)


---------------

THE PM:


Thanks for applying to judge PXFIRE 2017!

You have been selected as the judge for the ____ section.

The next step is to come up with a 4 week plan for your section. This must include how many events you are running and how long each event is. You must also submit the themes and rules for each event so that we have a record of them in case something comes up and someone else needs to take over. We'd like to have all this information in by JUNE 18TH if possible.

Here is an example of what information we need:

Section: Graphic Art
Number of events: 2
Duration of events: Each event lasts for one week
Event 1: TEAM SPIRIT! Create a signature banner which includes your team name and a slogan representing them. It also needs to include at least one Pokemon. Fan art is allowed. The goal is to make a banner which best represents your team. The maximum size is 800x300px.
Event 2: etc.

By JUNE 25TH we would like you to have posted your thread in the PXFIRE Planning board (http://www.pokemoncrossroads.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?250-Pokemon-Crossfire-Planning) so that it is ready to be made public once the event starts! This includes your rubric for grading. Here is an example rubric.


Section: Graphic Art

Fits the theme (includes all aspects listed in the rules): 20 points
Use of colour (do the colours work well together, how was lighting used): 20 points
Flow of banner (where is the eye attracted to, is the direction of the banner clear): 20 points
Text (font, placement, colour etc.) 20 points
Technique (did you make the banner yours, is there overall evidence of skill and technique in the brushwork, text, color, flow etc.): 20 points
TOTAL OUT OF 100.


If you need help coming up with ideas or want feedback on your ideas at all, feel free to post in the PXFIRE planning board and we can all help each other!

Please take a look at the WAR Season II threads for each section, to get an idea of how your thread will look and what kind of events we require: http://www.pokemoncrossroads.com/forum/showthread.php?6425-WAR-Season-II-Information-and-Links-&%239733;READ-FIRST&%239733;

When planning your events, please keep in mind that we want everyone to participate so, as much as possible, make sure the events aren't too difficult, time consuming or limited by timezones.

Thanks again for applying. PXFIRE couldn't run without you guys!

If you have any questions feel free to contact me anytime or post in the planning board.

-PXFIRE planning team

[AD]

I am sad to see Showdown go, I wish I could judge it but I don't think i could; especially with my growing lack of time lately and anxieties creeping up on me.

And I agree with Sarah, combining drawn and graphic art might not be a great idea with the reasons stated.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

HEY JUDGES!

Here is what I've come up with, let me know what you think :)

Each week, your event should end on

SUNDAY 2pm PDT (Los Angeles)
SUNDAY 5pm EDT (New York)
SUNDAY 10pm BST (London)
MONDAY 7am AEST (Melbourne)

When the event ends, you should post the event for the following week in your event thread. Try to get this up on the same day. A little bit earlier is fine if needed, and is preferable to being late. When your event ends, you will have until

WEDNESDAY 2pm PDT (Los Angeles)
WEDNESDAY 5pm EDT (New York)
WEDNESDAY 10pm BST (London)
THURSDAY 7am AEST (Melbourne)

to judge your entries, work out your point distribution and submit your results in this thread. I will then tally them up ASAP and add them to the scoreboard. If you submit your results on time you will receive 20 POINTS for your team! If you submit them late, you will not receive judging points for that week.

If you gys know you'll be busier during the week and would like to have time on the Sunday for grading, just let me know and I'll move the end date back 6 or so hours.

Neo Emolga LKWayvern EmeraldSky Chakramaster Noblejanobii Trainer17

[Noblejanobii]

Well, 5PM might be good for me? I'll actually be out of town June 30 through July 2 or 3 and then July 7 through the 9 or 10. So I might definitely need a later time the weekend of the the 7 through the 9 solely because I'll be at a politics conference that lasts most of the day and I'm not entirely sure how secure my internet access will be. -_-;

[Chakramaster]

Since the higher ups at my work thought it would be a smart idea and take the only person keeping track of counts and that knows how to do the store safety walk and make them a cashier again I may have fluctuating schedules. So I'll let you know times and important stuff asap if needed. Especially since they have me working weekends now. So if things go wrong or the store gets caught with a safety issue or counts start getting wacky or things gets caught by an inspector that's expired. They can't come blaming me. It was their idea to take me off that and not give me so much as a day to do any of that. So that's one reason I've been so stressed and behind lately. Hopefully it won't affect anything to these challenges. I'll be sure to keep you updated. :)

As for the graphic and drawn I made sure to mention it was a drawn art challenge, but art made with a tablet or computer would be okay. Cause some artists make sketchs and such with those as opposed to paper now since the technology exists. If you guys think it needs rewording or a change in how it's stated in my thread just let me know and I'll fix it right up.

[EmeraldSky]

Pokemon Trainer Sarah

So by that logic, both of mine would kick off Sunday at 4 PM my time, run for a week, and I would have until 4 PM Wednesday the next week to grade the previous week? Or am I reading it wrong?

[Neo Emolga]

I should be good with that, but if it seems like things are getting tricky, I'll let you know.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Since the higher ups at my work thought it would be a smart idea and take the only person keeping track of counts and that knows how to do the store safety walk and make them a cashier again I may have fluctuating schedules. So I'll let you know times and important stuff asap if needed. Especially since they have me working weekends now. So if things go wrong or the store gets caught with a safety issue or counts start getting wacky or things gets caught by an inspector that's expired. They can't come blaming me. It was their idea to take me off that and not give me so much as a day to do any of that. So that's one reason I've been so stressed and behind lately. Hopefully it won't affect anything to these challenges. I'll be sure to keep you updated. :)

As for the graphic and drawn I made sure to mention it was a drawn art challenge, but art made with a tablet or computer would be okay. Cause some artists make sketchs and such with those as opposed to paper now since the technology exists. If you guys think it needs rewording or a change in how it's stated in my thread just let me know and I'll fix it right up.
No probs Chakra :) Just keep me updated if something comes up :) I think the wording is fine!


Pokemon Trainer Sarah

So by that logic, both of mine would kick off Sunday at 4 PM my time, run for a week, and I would have until 4 PM Wednesday the next week to grade the previous week? Or am I reading it wrong?
Yep that's right!


I should be good with that, but if it seems like things are getting tricky, I'll let you know.
Cool :)


Well, 5PM might be good for me? I'll actually be out of town June 30 through July 2 or 3 and then July 7 through the 9 or 10. So I might definitely need a later time the weekend of the the 7 through the 9 solely because I'll be at a politics conference that lasts most of the day and I'm not entirely sure how secure my internet access will be. -_-;
No probs, if you let me know in advance that you'll need an extra day or two somewhere then I'm happy to still give the judging points. I could even give a whole week to get the judging in, but I think people would like feedback on the first week before submitting for the second etc. :) We can be a bit flexible though.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Also here is the schedule so far...

http://i.imgur.com/VGpqZ8C.png

Noblejanobii Since pixel art is only running for three out of the four weeks, you can pick whichever week you like to have off. :) If it makes it easier, you could have the week off that you are away. Just let me know how you'd like it arranged and I'll update the schedule!

[Noblejanobii]

Also here is the schedule so far...

http://i.imgur.com/VGpqZ8C.png

Noblejanobii Since pixel art is only running for three out of the four weeks, you can pick whichever week you like to have off. :) If it makes it easier, you could have the week off that you are away. Just let me know how you'd like it arranged and I'll update the schedule!

Well pixel art's final event is intended to run two weeks so I don't actually have that week off but I could change it since every challenge technically could be done in a week.


No probs, if you let me know in advance that you'll need an extra day or two somewhere then I'm happy to still give the judging points. I could even give a whole week to get the judging in, but I think people would like feedback on the first week before submitting for the second etc. :) We can be a bit flexible though.

Yeah I mean it just depends on interact accessibility and when I'll get back. I might just need like a day or two? I'll check the schedule of the conference and let you know a more definite answer once I can provide it.

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Well pixel art's final event is intended to run two weeks so I don't actually have that week off but I could change it since every challenge technically could be done in a week.



Yeah I mean it just depends on interact accessibility and when I'll get back. I might just need like a day or two? I'll check the schedule of the conference and let you know a more definite answer once I can provide it.

Ooh yeah, I forgot. :) Well I'll leave it up to you whether you'd like to have it over one week or two.

And yeah no worries if you need some extra time on that week :)

[Noblejanobii]

Ooh yeah, I forgot. :) Well I'll leave it up to you whether you'd like to have it over one week or two.

And yeah no worries if you need some extra time on that week :)

I'll probably leave it at two weeks for now but if I change my mind suddenly I'll make sure to make that very clear. The only reason I can see that happening is my Calc 2 final is like… around that time? Depending on how that line up goes I might have to cut my event slightly short. I'll check my calendar on that too.

Yeah I'm only antsy about that because last time I was there the internet was not sound however it sounds like I might be at a hotel this time so that might be better.

[Spiderc]

Also here is the schedule so far...

http://i.imgur.com/VGpqZ8C.png

Noblejanobii Since pixel art is only running for three out of the four weeks, you can pick whichever week you like to have off. :) If it makes it easier, you could have the week off that you are away. Just let me know how you'd like it arranged and I'll update the schedule!

I saw that there was a participation badge for Showdown in the other thread, but it's not scheduled yet. If people want I could put together something for weeks three and four after I get back from my trip. Showdown is by far the easiest section to judge so I'd have no issues getting that up and running quickly when I can.

On a semi-related topic, does anyone know who owns the PXR Showdown server? MichaelXD is constantly spamming in there and I'd love to be able to ban him.

[LKWayvern]

Yep, that schedule looks fine for Creative Writing.

[EmeraldSky]

Pokemon Trainer Sarah

Okay, thanks for clearing that up! I can't wait to kick this off with Pokemon Anime Theater 7000!

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

I saw that there was a participation badge for Showdown in the other thread, but it's not scheduled yet. If people want I could put together something for weeks three and four after I get back from my trip. Showdown is by far the easiest section to judge so I'd have no issues getting that up and running quickly when I can.

On a semi-related topic, does anyone know who owns the PXR Showdown server? MichaelXD is constantly spamming in there and I'd love to be able to ban him.

I asked Trainer17 if he'd be interested in hosting Showdown but I'm not sure if he's still interested. If not, then it'd be cool to at least do it for weeks 3 and 4. So I'll let you know! :) Wow... MichaelXD has gotten crazier :P I'll find out about admin powers as well!

[Chakramaster]

I think it was Fate? Since he hosted the majority of things Showdown wise

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

I think it was Fate? Since he hosted the majority of things Showsown wise

According to this, it's Sam and Dash...

http://www.pokemoncrossroads.com/forum/showthread.php?9507-PXR-Showdown-Server-Staff-amp-General-Info

So I PMed Sam about getting admin powers in there. xD

[Trainer17]

I saw that there was a participation badge for Showdown in the other thread, but it's not scheduled yet. If people want I could put together something for weeks three and four after I get back from my trip. Showdown is by far the easiest section to judge so I'd have no issues getting that up and running quickly when I can.

On a semi-related topic, does anyone know who owns the PXR Showdown server? MichaelXD is constantly spamming in there and I'd love to be able to ban him.
You know what. Ill let you take the judging part for showdown. I will assist you if you need an extra hand or so. I know your capabilities much so im pretty damn sure you can do a much better job xD

You can start bringing up the thread.

Also regarding the showdown server, i believe some shift of powers are in order. Ill take a look into that and add you up as well (once im done with work tdy) :'3

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Trainer17]

Sorry for double post, but Spiderc and Pokemon Trainer Sarah, can you guys get online at the pxr showdown server chat now? Im online there now and will bestow powers asap on both of you

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

Sorry for double post, but Spiderc and Pokemon Trainer Sarah, can you guys get online at the pxr showdown server chat now? Im online there now and will bestow powers asap on both of you

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

"Because moderated chat is set, your account must be at least one week old and you must have won at least one ladder game to speak in this room."

*cries* XD Is this something that will need to be changed to allow people to participate in the showdown event?

Thanks though :)

[Trainer17]

"Because moderated chat is set, your account must be at least one week old and you must have won at least one ladder game to speak in this room."

*cries* XD Is this something that will need to be changed to allow people to participate in the showdown event?

Thanks though :)
Oh geezus. If thats the only case..maybe week one I will make it such that it doesn't use the chat room yet (ladder ranking battle for week 1) that should get the pre-requisites filled in no time. Week 2 onwards then we can fully utilize the lobby chat room.

Otherwise me or Spiderc will to work around that. Will make the update soon :'3

Most likely i'll be taking care of week 1 and 2 then spidey will do week 3 and 4. Ill bring up the discussion thread later today or spidey can do that while I look into that one week thingy.

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