Transgenderism

[PerseusRad]

With the recent Caitlyn/Bruce Jenner event, I decided that now would be a decent time to discuss this. Many people are angry or even afraid of the idea of transgenderism. This mostly stems from religion and ignorance of this topic. Now, most of us know that transgenderism is the feeling that your gender doesn't match your sex. Many people seem to think that those people need mental health. However, I as well as many other, see things from their side. These people's minds aren't the problem that needs to be "fixed". Instead, it is their body that doesn't match up with their mind. Put yourself in their shoes. How would you feel if you were told your mind is broken, when in fact you feel it is your body is broken?

Not good, is it? These feelings you may be feeling are what those people feel every day of their life. They're afraid of being abused for being "different" or "strange". So many people are unsupportive because transgenderism is something they don't understand. I'd like to hear your opinion on this subject.

Remember, while dissenting opinions are allowed, I will not tolerate extremely offensive remarks. If you phrase your arguments professionally, you should be fine.

[SassySnivy]

I'll just put it plain and simple: people who look down on other people for them just wanting to be themselves disgust me. This goes both ways for me: when it pertains to being against being trans, AND when it pertains to being against being "cis," i.e. what a lot of tumblr SJWs are all about.

People can't help that they're gay. They can't help if they're trans.
On the other end of the spectrum, people can't help if they're "cis". People can't help if they're hetero.

I'm all about not being afraid to be who you are. Who you feel you are. Do you feel like you're a wolf trapped in a human body? Go for it. Whichever way it goes, don't be an *** about it and shove it in my face. Similarly, don't feel offended and throw a temper-tantrum when someone mistakenly calls you by the wrong pronoun. I can't STAND that. That is absolutely nothing to get worked-up over.

Just my two-cents; maybe my little comment can help get the ball rolling.

[Suicune's Fire]

I think transgenderism is quite a serious issue. Similarly to other things relating to identity, it's not something one can control, and it's certainly nothing that someone should be condemned or ridiculed because of. I couldn't imagine the torment I'd undergo if I was in the position of striving to get my body to match who I am. I'm compassionate towards people who do suffer in this manner; they were simply supposed to be another gender, but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way at conception.

I agree that people are simply afraid because they don't understand. Why do we, as humans, put such deep seeded value on gender? Does it go back to ancient times when we actually needed to keep the species alive by reproducing? Well, we all know those days are over. So why is gender still so important? Probably because of its social integration. Which, unfortunately, is something that's very difficult to change.

Good topic raising. :]


Speed, you ninja'd me! XD Very good points you raised there. c:

[Coru]

I am all for any trans person doing whatever they wish to make them feel themselves and free and not to feel trapped in a body that they feel is not truly theirs. I have a trans friend, and he is one of the nicest people I know. I do admit, he is a little quiet, haha, but he is friendly, funny and just a great person. Should I look down on him because he has the biological body of a girl? No! He feels that he is a boy, so in my mind, he is and I can never see he as anything else, just like people could never see a cis male as a female. It is the same concept.

What I am not for is transphobia and, I will dub it 'Cisphobia' to prove a point, discrimination, no matter who you are is wrong. saying that Trans people are mentally ill is horrible, no one should be forced to think that they are mad for feeling like their true self doesn't match with how their body works and develops, but at the same time, the anti-LGBT discrimination can't be fought by discrimination against those considered the norm either. Yes, they aren't a minority, but all it will do is anger everyone. I am mainly talking about a minority of tumblr users, which I have seen more than enough of. They use 'cis' as an insult. I think this is a shame as it brings a bad stigma to the trans community, making people think that they insult anyone that isn't part of the LGBT community, which simply isn't true. Discrimination can't be fought with more discrimination!

At the end of the day, this all boils down to acceptance. Trans people are just like us, who cares if they are biologically a different gender to who they identify as? If you can't agree, then don't try to tell them how to live their life. All LGBT are just like any other person. They have a life, a family, feelings and are great people. This is speaking from knowing quite a few people in LGBT. I just hope one day that people wont be confined by labels. Where Gays, Heteros, Transgenders, Bisexuals can all live together in acceptance and don't have to tell anyone that they are gay or trans, because none of it matters. All that matters is who you are, and not who you are attracted to, or what you identify as.

[Suicune's Fire]

I agree with your point and Speed's about fighting discrimination with discrimination. I can't fathom why people would try to combat negativity with negativity that only hurts their cause. xD I hate the term "cishet" myself. Plus it looks like the sh should make a regular sh sound. I know it was created out of malice and is used in such a way. I've seen it on DeviantART and I (figuratively) ran screaming. xD I can imagine parts of tumblr would fester with it as well. It's so illogical that it hurts my brain. xD

1. Let's shout at the people who already have a misguided opinion of us to make them MORE misguided!
2. Catastrophe ensues.

Unfortunately that's the attitude of many groups, espeeeecially in social media.

[SassySnivy]

It's funny, because I am actually under the impression that the majority of tumblr users who use "cis" as an insult and other similar mannerisms are actually just straight cis people.

As people we feel less guilty if we rail on people of a label that we apply to (straight, white, hispanic, whatever).
Also on a similar note most people who whine about "cultural misappropriation" are just white americans for the most part. It's pretty pathetic, actually. Most people of a certain culture don't even care about the things that most "multiculturalist" whiners go on and on about. But that's a rant for another day!

I think Corru especailly brought up a wonderful point and worded it much better than I: you can't fight fire with fire! it just doesn't work that way.

[Dragon Master Mike]

Is it bad/weird that I've never heard the term "Cis" until now? I have no clue what it means.

I pretty much agree with what everyone here said. Pretty much my motto is that if something will make you happy and isn't hurting anyone, then go for it. Everyone here has pretty much said anything I would have to say and worded it far better than I ever could, so there's no point in repeating it, because there has been not one thing said that I disagree with.

I've actually never told anyone this, but there have been times when I felt like I should have been born female. Not strongly enough that I could ever have acted on it, but it was still there, and there was at least one time that I was pretty seriously convinced. Am I happy how I am? Mostly. But I still can't help but wonder from time to time what it would have been like if I was born female. Well, the point of my saying this is that, although I realize what I felt wasn't really what real transgender people feel, I think I at least have a vague idea as to what they feel.

[SassySnivy]

If you ask me, I think that's totally normal, Mike. We all get a little curious and will sometimes take a minute to wonder "what if." it's just how we are: humans are a naturally curious race.

[Noblejanobii]

This is one of those things that, according to my religion, I'm supposed to oppose. But I feel like everyone is different and while God doesn't make mistakes, I think people should be allowed to act in any manner of their choosing to explore their personality… within reason. Now don't take that as me saying you should go murder a city to explore your personality, but if you think that you're more like a girl than a guy or visa versa, then that's the way God made your personality, and I see no issues with that.

[Neo Emolga]

Live and let live.

It's their body, they can decide what they want to do with it. For me, it's nothing I would ever even dream of doing, but to them, it's their choice. Personally, I'm a straight, white male and I'm happy with that and intend on staying that way. To quote Wreck-it Ralph, "there's no one I'd rather be than me."

I'm not sure what the haters are afraid of. Do they really think this is going to become a big trend to the point where anyone who doesn't do it will be cast out and shunned? I really don't see that happening. I think what people really need to learn is everyone is free to make their own decisions and reap the rewards and consequences of those choices on their own, especially when it comes to their own bodies and beliefs. At long as their choices don't hurt others, I don't see where the harm is. The real problem is when one person feels their views are superior and feel entitled to forcefully impose and mistreat others because of it.

In terms of religion, you know, it's not our place to judge others like that. That's for God to decide. If you really want to do God's will, help the needy, help clean up the planet, donate, and be faithful. Don't go attacking others thinking you're acting on His behalf. Remember, Jesus Christ walked with the tax collector, the lepers, and the thieves, and I don't even see these kinds of people nearly that bad. "Come as you are" and "love one another as I have loved you" are the messages, and I think everyone can learn a lot from that even if they aren't Christian.

[brandon_g]

My 2 cents in this is the same I take with most societal issues in general. Society is scared and blind to anything outside of the 'normal', they will refuse to accept it for as long as possible. They did with civil rights and racism, they'll do it with transgender people and gays, lesbians, etc. I am one for choices, if they want to dress that way they can, it's their life. No one else is hurt from it! WHO CARES SOCIETY? I always have gone by my personal point of view of society, I am not going to try to fit in with society, if society fits in with me fine, if not, I don't much care, I am who am I and I dont care about much else. People in general put so much emphasive on what others think of them, which can be very stressful. First of all I think someone should just be themselves and not go to huge lengths to fit in. I don't and I feel my life is much better that way! If society fits with me, fine, if not all well.

I will say that I am happy things have gotten this far, as far as getting awareness and legal stuff out there. A person in my class is transgender, he is very smart and cool... He will put you in your place too if you want to bully him too. No one in the school except for the occasional ignorant kid judges him on anything, because they probably put in thier place along time ago. Good for him! That is what more people need to do... Stand up to that bully... Call him out in front of his friends, stand up to him/her.

This will take time for the blind, narrow minded society to accept, but like civil rights and race, they will get over it and learn to live with it. Trans gender people have a will made of steel and should be given a medal, standing up against society is not easy, but by doing it your doing your part a to make the world better place. Point: Don't let blind narrow minded society dictate who you are, be YOURSELF, if society don't like it... TOUGH!

[Corey]

The only issue I could possibly find people have with transsexualism is the religious argument, which Neo addressed. Other than, "ew that's icky," which isn't a rational nor respectful argument, I'm don't know why anyone would argue against transsexualism. Though, humans have always frowned upon non-procreative sex, whether it be in the form of homosexuality, transsexualism, or fetishism. Many still oppose oral sex and sodomy, even among heterosexual couples.

I think the problem lies in ignorance, as many people associate gender and sex, when they're, in reality, two different things. Sex is biological, while gender is a human construct. Sex is binary and gender is not. Sex is physical, while gender is mental. Though, one similarity between assigned sex and gender is that they aren't choices. I've done little research into the origins of transgenderism (if this were a thread about homosexuality, then class would be in session), and I'm not even sure if there's been comprehensive studies of scientific standard conducted on the topic, but I'm rather certain that gender dysphoria is no more a choice than something like clinical depression.

As for "cisphobia," I've rarely ever seen true, non-satirical "cisphobia," and I frequent Tumblr. I think that it's an attempt to make a jab at the majority due to persecution of the minority, which is understandable, but not an appropriate response.


I've actually never told anyone this, but there have been times when I felt like I should have been born female. Not strongly enough that I could ever have acted on it, but it was still there, and there was at least one time that I was pretty seriously convinced. Am I happy how I am? Mostly. But I still can't help but wonder from time to time what it would have been like if I was born female. Well, the point of my saying this is that, although I realize what I felt wasn't really what real transgender people feel, I think I at least have a vague idea as to what they feel.

Haha, I'm pretty sure most people feel this way, just a lot of people won't admit it. I personally think my life would be 1000x easier if I were born female. I could more acceptably indulge in my make-up fascination and like boys (being gay is very frustrating when no hot, romantic gays live within a 32345843274320985 mile radius). I'm lucky though, in the sense that I could just be a drag queen (which is more fun than being a girl would be imo). The difference between curiosity and transsexualism is how you identify mentally. :)

[[Desolate Divine]]

I don't have a problem with transgenderism, when done properly. What I mean by that is this:

I have two close transgender friends.

One of them treats their gender as an aspect of their identity. Chances are if someone said "Hey do you know xxxxxx?", someone would say "I think so. Isn't he that guy who, plays guitar/does sound engineering/likes dancing etc"
One of them lets their gender consume their whole identity. 90% of what they post online is about the fact they are non binary in gender. One of my close friends is friends with this person on facebook and agrees with me. Based on what they post on facebook, this friend of mine can determine nothing about them other than the fact that they are transgender. Chances are if someone said "Hey do you know xxxx?", someone would say "Are they that transgender person?" as opposed to "I think so, they like Pokemon/is a hairdresser/into gothic clothing aren't they?". I mean, I would rather refer to me as "that musician guy" or "that guy who likes pokemon" instead of "That Cysgender guy." This leads into my next point.

One of them has never even mentioned being transgender. Within weeks of knowing him, myself and my classmates simply knew. He became 'one of the guys'. And we all accepted that.
The other tends to force their gender identity down other peoples throats, and honestly, I just find it irritating. I find my religion to be a massive aspect of my identity, but I don't shove it down people throats. All I ask is that others don't shove their beliefs down mine.

One of them doesn't expect everyone else to change for him. He makes people want to change by being a really nice person. People would want to change to stay friends with him.
The other expects the world to change for them, in a sense that if anyone even accidentally slips up with pronouns, they will bite their head off. I guess that I have always gone by the mindset "Don't be an effort." I feel like my presence shouldn't make people work any harder, and vice versa.

One of them is an example of someone treating their gender identity maturely.
The other isn't.

Essentially, I have no problem with transgenderism, as long as they are mature about it.

On a slightly related note, the whole Caitlyn Jenner things irks me, but not because of the gender thing. More the fact that the media are trying to portray a 65 year old as a sexualized 25 year old. I dunno, I guess I just find it slightly perverted. I guess that they wouldn't do that with a 65 year old cysgender woman, so why do it with Caitlyn. But I guess that is just the media/Kardashians doing what they do best.