The Devolution Battle Royale 2 Feedback Thread!

@Chakramaster @Noblejanobii @Scytherwolf @C0L0R3D @Voltaire Magneton @arnisd @Shruikan

First off, I want to thank everyone that joined in for DBR2 and I hope you had a great time with it! I also want to thank @Cleobel for being awesome quality control and sending me VMs whenever she caught errors. And she caught a LOT of errors!

Anyway, I wanted to take a moment to get some easy-going informal feedback on DBR2, not necessarily for a possible DBR3, but to at least get opinions about things you like, things you didn’t like, and to rationalize out why certain things were done and to keep bits like that in mind for future events like this.

DURATION - I think it was pretty clear toward the end that things had gotten a bit more ruthless in terms of penalties for losing when certain hosts showed up. That was definitely NOT on the original agenda, but it was around the time we introduced Clover the Ninetales did I look at the stats page and realized “omg, look at all the lineups people still have, this is going to keep going forever!” I can easily say mistakes were made with the MASSIVE amount of coins that were thrown about, lots of Compensator levels were bought, and as a result, the duration of DBR2 had grown exponentially and that the number of backup lineups that people were getting was overrunning the speed that they were getting taken away by devolution/egging. I have a feeling if things had stayed the course that they had started on since the beginning, we probably would still be playing this well into the summer if not even well beyond that. Meanwhile, I was just burning out from how long this had been going on for. I didn’t want to end things too quickly and I still wanted to keep my sanity, so the solution was to have a slow buildup toward higher stakes battles where losing had a tough price, all the way up until it became kind of a tournament where losing meant you were out completely.

I apologize if this seemed harsh, it was definitely not the original intention when we first started. But options in trying to get the game closer to a conclusion were limited and my burnout was showing in the form of mistakes and hastiness (which led to more mistakes!). Usually “nah ha ha, sudden death now” is not on the agenda for games like this. xD

CERTAIN OP ELEMENTS – As much as I’d love to say hey, DBR is finally balanced, eh… it’s not, although it IS in a better state than DBR1 where ghosts ruled the land. Something I thought would be fun to try (being Mew) and wouldn’t do too much damage ended up being drastically overpowered and very-game breaking, especially with a Cheaty Cookie. Don’t get me wrong, Cheaty Cookies were made because ghosts were nearly unstoppable juggernauts in DBR1 and there needed to be a counter to them. At the same time, a sort of semi-counter (Brass Balls) was made to at least be a defensive measure for those wanting to be ghosts, but seeing there were Cheaty Cookies in circulation.

There’s also other things that would need to be addressed if this ever gets a DBR3. Someone could load up their entire roster with nothing but Mew and while it’s legal, it’s… an OP mess. So maybe there might need to be a “you can only be each Pokémon once” rule (even with Wheels, so you would respin if you get a result that turns you into a Pokémon who were already once before). Besides that, someone could also get around the “ghosts cost 2 stages” by loading up their Wheel with ghosts, give themselves lots of single-stage lineups that aren’t ghosts, and then choose Wheel Master and then wheel themselves constantly to get ghost types. Case in point, there are some really killer game-breaking combos that aren’t hard to find and while the game works MOST of the time, there’s an Achille’s heel situation. Things like that would need to be resolved, too.

THOUGHTS ABOUT THE DECK – It was a fun idea, but it would need to be reworked. Anything that comes out of the deck should be made a bit more minor and have results that can be undone. Either that, or drop the deck entirely (it did add a lot of extra work after all). Certain cards, such as the “Blast to the Past” card that added extra coins to Friday’s Pay Days, ended up making things go wild to the point where Superpower upgrades ran rampant and there were plenty of people that weren’t even spending all their Coins. Makes me wonder what might have been if they had! And that brings me to my next point.

SUPERPOWERS – These were fun and I liked them more when people just picked one and that’s what they got for the whole game. I think the idea of buying more and upgrading them was a great idea with the best of intentions… at first. And then it got to be kind of a brain scramble trying to remember all the Superpowers people had and making sure they were all accounted for during the battle. And as Cleobel can tell you, I messed that up plenty of times!

I think if there were to be a DBR3, people could choose two of them and they’d start and stay at Level 1.

ITEMS: – I actually don’t have a problem with most of the items. I think most of them are pretty fair and fun, but I’d still impose the hard limit on the number of times you can buy and use Mighty Shield and Second Wind, since those too, could have made the game go on forever. Prices might need to be tweaked here and there a bit, but I think they’re in a good spot to be in. I just think way too many Coins were thrown around and I think only having 1 Coin on Friday Paydays would be the way to go.


Anyway, those are my main thoughts regarding how DBR2 went. I’m curious to know your feedback, too. What were some of the things you liked about DBR2, some of the things you didn’t quite like and would change, and other thoughts about the game. Stuff like this not only helps me for possible DBR sequels, but it helps for other events if I run into situations where “hey, I was thinking of implementing something like XYZ, but it’s similar to ABC that was in DBR2 and people weren’t too fond of that.” It helps a lot either way and I definitely can leverage constructive criticism.

Also, offhand, if anyone wants to put on any of the avatar and banner sets they had during the game, that’s totally fine, just let me know which set you’d like! Here’s the full PostImg page that has all the DBR2 graphics, so if you had a fondness for a particular set you had during the game and want to wear it again, just let me know and I can put it back on you.

Cheers and good times!

@Neo Emolga Thank you for hosting the DBR2 game! It was a pleasure to watch it unfold (and report errors to you).

In addition to what you have already said : during the game, I felt like the Smart Cookie superpower wasn't really useful (due to the existence of the MacGyver + Cheaty Cookie combo).
Therefore, the following idea came to my mind : what if the Cheaty Cookie only lasted for one move instead of one battle (= when a player who has primed a Cheaty Cookie uses a move that is not very effective or not effective at all for the first time of the battle, that move becomes a regular or super effective move, and then the Cheaty Cookie disappears)? I'm not sure if that's a good idea, though.
(Something similar could also be done with the Brass Balls : when a player who has primed Brass Balls is hit by a super effective move for the first time of the battle, that move becomes a regular move, and then the Brass Balls disappear. I don't know whether the "+1 HP" effect of the Brass Balls should be kept or removed, though.)

Thanks again for hosting DBR2! :D

(Side note : in French-speaking countries, when a student points out a teacher's mistake, for example on the classroom's blackboard, the teacher often says that "they made the mistake on purpose to check whether the students were paying attention". Is that a thing in English-speaking countries? I assume it's not, since Neo never said that to me when I caught his errors during DBR2?)

Do you want my friendly opinion or my real thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Cleobel

@Neo Emolga Thank you for hosting the DBR2 game! It was a pleasure to watch it unfold (and report errors to you).

In addition to what you have already said : during the game, I felt like the Smart Cookie superpower wasn't really useful (due to the existence of the MacGyver + Cheaty Cookie combo).
Therefore, the following idea came to my mind : what if the Cheaty Cookie only lasted for one move instead of one battle (= when a player who has primed a Cheaty Cookie uses a move that is not very effective or not effective at all for the first time of the battle, that move becomes a regular or super effective move, and then the Cheaty Cookie disappears)? I'm not sure if that's a good idea, though.
(Something similar could also be done with the Brass Balls : when a player who has primed Brass Balls is hit by a super effective move for the first time of the battle, that move becomes a regular move, and then the Brass Balls disappear. I don't know whether the "+1 HP" effect of the Brass Balls should be kept or removed, though.)

Thanks again for hosting DBR2! :D

(Side note : in French-speaking countries, when a student points out a teacher's mistake, for example on the classroom's blackboard, the teacher often says that "they made the mistake on purpose to check whether the students were paying attention". Is that a thing in English-speaking countries? I assume it's not, since Neo never said that to me when I caught his errors during DBR2?)

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Thank you!

Yeah, I think Smart Cookie had a little more value in the beginning, but then after MacGyver's revision, it kind of fell by the wayside, although it did have an impact in cases where Cheaty Cookie wasn't used at all. But I think your idea of having Cheaty Cookie trigger only once is definitely something to consider, because it made all the difference in some battles. Either that, or I think the price might need to go up a Coin or two. And the same could go for Brass Balls and yeah, maybe it doesn't need that +1 effect after all.

And nah, these mistakes weren't intentional. Usually I tried to double-check my stuff but sometimes it was easy to miss things just from how much stuff was going on. And as you proved, having that second set of eyes check my stuff really helped!

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Originally Posted by Shruikan

Do you want my friendly opinion or my real thoughts?

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Real thoughts. Don't need to sugar-coat anything, that's what this thread is here for. You could tell me the game was a big train-wreck and I'd totally be open to hearing you out on everything that went wrong (and trust me, I know there's plenty of mishaps that happened during the course of this). All I'll say is don't attack anyone personally, this game was made with the best of intentions and I understand while many things did go right for it, plenty of things did go wrong as well and my aim with this thread is to see them, understand them, and make sure they get weeded out. You could even say it looks pretty hopeless for DBR3 and that's fine (it would definitely need heavy revisions), but I want to get to the root causes and understand all the reasons you feel why that is the case so the same mistakes aren't repeated in some other event.

I value all opinions and take everything into consideration, so please, feel free to share your real thoughts on this.

Yeah I think when making this we ran into the same issue Stalkers 2 had. We went well overboard. In what sounded great written down. In reality, it be became far too complex. It sounded like an incredible upgrade (and was), but without the manpower to resource updates regularly. It left you with more than could be handled. Cleobel found her share of errors and I helped with editing where I could and when I could. That was my biggest fear. Editing and you editing after or you having already edit and me editing again. Maybe for edit updates we need a log to show when it was last update.

I do feel we had far too many items. Items and Superpowers. Some just helped to bolster things and keep things going. Which led to how long this game went on for. Like Cleobel said, maybe like Cheaty Cookie and Brass Balls could be like a one time use thing. How different some matches would have been if that were the case.

Then that there brings the big issue though. What to do with more powerful types that could break the game (I.e: Ghosts especially and another being Steel). Cheaty cookie would only last once then they'd be untouchable again. There's gotta be some solution without totally removing them from the game.

Either Deck needs to be removed or totally reworked in my opinion. We did have the card drop though that increased the odds it dropped. Which made things tougher. I would think wheels should exclude Pokémon like Ghost types or any Pokémon that are broken to some extent. The wheel is meant to be something of a downside. Not used to help you get something better. That's what the line YOU choose at the start is for.

Yeah unfortunately it had to come to an end quicker than we thought, but we didn't want it ending just abruptly either. We tried coming up with some crazy unique ways to help speed it up. The unfortunate part was it left some unprepared to deal with it. One loss and you were robbed of ways to comeback. It left you stripped of coins, exp, and a superpower and line. While it did help to speed things up. It outright killed some flat out in one go. Which...yeah kinda sucks. Like me, I had planned on ending as my Pikachu lineup to use Second Wind for that token too. But having to rush. I couldn't buy another Shield yo place on and use Second Wind. Plans for everyone suddenly got changed and I think it dropped a lot of morale in the end.

While it was good fun. I think I'm the end this one just goes to show sometimes if it sounds too good. It probably is and we need to rethink things through.

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Originally Posted by Shruikan

Do you want my friendly opinion or my real thoughts?

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Like Neo said. Real thoughts on the matter. That's what this thread is for. To help find that happy medium. Where we can create events in the future that will be fun for all and not so mind boggling crazy on one person to handle. All so everyone can be happy and have fun. Without question.

I honestly liked every aspect of this, but the duration certainly could have been better. As Mellow Aglome said, we could have been driving into July with the rate we was on!

Fortunately, I have myself an idea that I’d like to share: something I shall call the 10-Lineup Bash! And I shall run an example.

Spoiler:

Let’s say we have two players in a battle; Noob as a Oshawott and M as a Vivillon. And let’s say M won the battle and subjects Noob to his wheel, with it landing on Togekiss. But here’s where the 10-Lineup Bash thrives in creativity.
The lineup is simply replaced, right down to the lineup level that player was on. So instead of becoming Togekiss, Noob would become a Togepi instead! As for that Oshawott line? Gone! Oh Susana, that ain’t growing back.
There’d also be no way to increase your lineups besides from the ten they begin with. They only get swapped and knocked out as time goes along.
I think this idea may shorten DBR in a way if a bit of tweaking occurs in places that need work, but hopefully this helped a teeny bit!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C0L0R3D

I honestly liked every aspect of this, but the duration certainly could have been better. As Mellow Aglome said, we could have been driving into July with the rate we was on!

Fortunately, I have myself an idea that I’d like to share: something I shall call the 10-Lineup Bash! And I shall run an example.

Spoiler:

Let’s say we have two players in a battle; Noob as a Oshawott and M as a Vivillon. And let’s say M won the battle and subjects Noob to his wheel, with it landing on Togekiss. But here’s where the 10-Lineup Bash thrives in creativity.
The lineup is simply replaced, right down to the lineup level that player was on. So instead of becoming Togekiss, Noob would become a Togepi instead! As for that Oshawott line? Gone! Oh Susana, that ain’t growing back.
There’d also be no way to increase your lineups besides from the ten they begin with. They only get swapped and knocked out as time goes along.
I think this idea may shorten DBR in a way if a bit of tweaking occurs in places that need work, but hopefully this helped a teeny bit!

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Definitely an interesting idea, though I think the only question I have is what might happen if when M wheels Noob, it landed on something that doesn't have the same number of stages, such as Zangoose or Floatzel for example. And what if Noob was Dewott. Would he go Buizel or Floatzel if it landed on Floatzel?

I think I'd say go with 10 stages rather than 10 lineups. 10 lineups would be a LOT. I think on top of this, if Superpowers do make a comeback, Compensator might need to go. Because dang, that was a major culprit in extending the duration of the game. Also, if the Deck were to make a comeback (leaning more against that, honestly), then I would definitely take out the stuff that gives more lineups.

Ooh, right! Gotta smooth that out, don’t I.

If Floatzel were to be rolled while Noob was a Dewott, he would still become a Floatzel as it has evolved once like Dewott is. But if Zangoose (or anything lower than a current stage) got rolled then that Dewott line would be ditched entirely to make way for the Zangoose.