The Wayfinders | A Kingdom Hearts club |

Well, Sieses, you have to consider how much of the series they had planned at the time. I mean, with 3D it sure seems like Nomura was planning things and dropping hints all along, but how long did it take to flesh out the importance of this new collection of villains? Sure, everyone seems to have solid plans in CoM, but that's what? Six of the thirteen, and they were pretty evenly divided in their interactions between Sora and Riku's stories. By KH2, you're back to one main character and two more main villains on top of the other seven in the Organization that you're dealing with, and again, there's no telling how well planned the entire series plot was at that point, so it could be that that's why you don't see enough of Organization XIII, particularly certain characters.

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Originally Posted by Winter

Well, Sieses, you have to consider how much of the series they had planned at the time. I mean, with 3D it sure seems like Nomura was planning things and dropping hints all along, but how long did it take to flesh out the importance of this new collection of villains? Sure, everyone seems to have solid plans in CoM, but that's what? Six of the thirteen, and they were pretty evenly divided in their interactions between Sora and Riku's stories. By KH2, you're back to one main character and two more main villains on top of the other seven in the Organization that you're dealing with, and again, there's no telling how well planned the entire series plot was at that point, so it could be that that's why you don't see enough of Organization XIII, particularly certain characters.

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Granted, but I don't think that quite excuses the pure lack of screen time from them.

Part of the reason that they couldn't show up more in CoM was that the Disney Worlds of that game were created from Sora's memory, and there was nothing to be gained from the members of the Organization interfering with what occurred in them. Nomura could have easily had them take part in the Disney worlds, trying to turn the villains into Heartless, with their interference changing how things go down from the movie. As things are, I have to agree with some of the critics; Kingdom Hearts II feels like a bad fanfic, with most of the canon Disney worlds going the same way as they did in the movies except Sora takes an unnecessarily large part that he didn't have the first time.

On the topic of how much they had planed, it was at least enough for them to know that Xigbar had interacted with the Keyblade wielders of the past. It was only an offhanded comment on his part, but no other character in the game mentioned another Keyblade wielder in the past tense other than Roxas. They could have easily given that part to Saix, being for all intents and proposes the second-in-command of the Organization, or even Xemnas himself to establish him as more of a threat, but they chose to give it to Xigbar. They had to have known something about what would happen in BBS at that point.

Anyway, they should have firmly established what each villain was going to be like before doing anything with them, and a single Disney World with one of them as the main antagonist would have been enough to establish their characters. If they really felt that they needed more than Xemnas to fight at the World that Never Was, then they could have easily had Xigbar and Saix survive their initial encounters with Sora.

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Originally Posted by FedoraChar

Definitely on the top of my list, though, is Treasure Planet! There's so much potential with it, plus the whole steampunk flair to it is amazing :D I'd also love to see the Emporer's New Groove (just imagine all the kicks and giggles xD) and The Great Mouse Detective (I don't see them getting changed into mice, granted--it'd be more like what happened to Ven in Cinderella). Robin Hood might be another good one, too ^^

-Jungle Book (which is very likely, as it was almost in a game anyway)
-The Black Cauldron (dark movie, but still...)
-Ducktales (HAHAHAHA YES. DO IT NOMURA)

But hey, at least we know one world that's bound to come back, right? :D

Spoiler:

http://www.khwiki.com/images/9/98/Ol...Logo_KHBBS.png
Because it always comes back, no matter how far under the Underworld you try to shove it

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Treasure Planet and the movies still left in the list are the main ones I want to see. Jungle Book is likely. I think it almost made it in both I and II, but it gave them too many troubles and it was cut. I want Treasure Planet for obvious action reasons, and TBC for obvious dark reasons.

I don't think they'll ever get rid of Olympus, and I like it that way.

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Originally Posted by Winter

Well, Sieses, you have to consider how much of the series they had planned at the time. I mean, with 3D it sure seems like Nomura was planning things and dropping hints all along, but how long did it take to flesh out the importance of this new collection of villains? Sure, everyone seems to have solid plans in CoM, but that's what? Six of the thirteen, and they were pretty evenly divided in their interactions between Sora and Riku's stories. By KH2, you're back to one main character and two more main villains on top of the other seven in the Organization that you're dealing with, and again, there's no telling how well planned the entire series plot was at that point, so it could be that that's why you don't see enough of Organization XIII, particularly certain characters.

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All true. And yet they could've added more scenes in 2.5.

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Originally Posted by Sieses

Granted, but I don't think that quite excuses the pure lack of screen time from them.

Part of the reason that they couldn't show up more in CoM was that the Disney Worlds of that game were created from Sora's memory, and there was nothing to be gained from the members of the Organization interfering with what occurred in them. Nomura could have easily had them take part in the Disney worlds, trying to turn the villains into Heartless, with their interference changing how things go down from the movie. As things are, I have to agree with some of the critics; Kingdom Hearts II feels like a bad fanfic, with most of the canon Disney worlds going the same way as they did in the movies except Sora takes an unnecessarily large part that he didn't have the first time.

On the topic of how much they had planed, it was at least enough for them to know that Xigbar had interacted with the Keyblade wielders of the past. It was only an offhanded comment on his part, but no other character in the game mentioned another Keyblade wielder in the past tense other than Roxas. They could have easily given that part to Saix, being for all intents and proposes the second-in-command of the Organization, or even Xemnas himself to establish him as more of a threat, but they chose to give it to Xigbar. They had to have known something about what would happen in BBS at that point.

Anyway, they should have firmly established what each villain was going to be like before doing anything with them, and a single Disney World with one of them as the main antagonist would have been enough to establish their characters. If they really felt that they needed more than Xemnas to fight at the World that Never Was, then they could have easily had Xigbar and Saix survive their initial encounters with Sora.

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Maybe it doesn't excuse the lack of screen time, but it might explain.

Honestly, more characters in CoM would have been ridiculous. I can't imagine trying to cram more Organization characters in. And while they obviously didn't do the best job with KH2's story, it was only the 3rd game in the series, on the second where interaction with the worlds really mattered, it takes time to work out kinks. I think the games that have followed since have done a pretty good job of not repeating that mistake, but I could be wrong...I haven't played KH2 in years, and try to avoid fighting the rest of the family to play the household consoles, so I haven't gotten the PS3 remakes.

At the time, they'd also had some minor details of BBS in place as well, I think--wasn't 2's secret ending essentially a trailer for BBS? But while they may have established that he had contact with keyblade wielders in the past, they may not have established how much he had, or what kind of contact he'd had with them. It was barely hinted at again in Days with Roxas and Xigbar, but again, we have no idea just how far they had gotten with that background at that point in time. Just because you have base details fleshed out, doesn't mean you always have full details fleshed out...or Nomura could just like being that secretive--look at how long it took him to explain stuff from the beginning of the series, I mean what number in the series is 3D? Like 6 or 7? And it was only then that he got around to explaining certain stuff from KH1.

I think they did firmly establish what everyone was going to be like--their personalities were pretty clear from the start. They just waitied to pile on the final boss fights until the end, but that just seems to be an annoying KH tradition. XD

EDIT: And while they could have added more scenes to 2.5, Square isn't exactly known for making the best decisions, now are they?

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Originally Posted by Winter

Maybe it doesn't excuse the lack of screen time, but it might explain.

Honestly, more characters in CoM would have been ridiculous. I can't imagine trying to cram more Organization characters in. And while they obviously didn't do the best job with KH2's story, it was only the 3rd game in the series, on the second where interaction with the worlds really mattered, it takes time to work out kinks. I think the games that have followed since have done a pretty good job of not repeating that mistake, but I could be wrong...I haven't played KH2 in years, and try to avoid fighting the rest of the family to play the household consoles, so I haven't gotten the PS3 remakes.

At the time, they'd also had some minor details of BBS in place as well, I think--wasn't 2's secret ending essentially a trailer for BBS? But while they may have established that he had contact with keyblade wielders in the past, they may not have established how much he had, or what kind of contact he'd had with them. It was barely hinted at again in Days with Roxas and Xigbar, but again, we have no idea just how far they had gotten with that background at that point in time. Just because you have base details fleshed out, doesn't mean you always have full details fleshed out...or Nomura could just like being that secretive--look at how long it took him to explain stuff from the beginning of the series, I mean what number in the series is 3D? Like 6 or 7? And it was only then that he got around to explaining certain stuff from KH1.

I think they did firmly establish what everyone was going to be like--their personalities were pretty clear from the start. They just waitied to pile on the final boss fights until the end, but that just seems to be an annoying KH tradition. XD

EDIT: And while they could have added more scenes to 2.5, Square isn't exactly known for making the best decisions, now are they?

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KHII may have only been the second game where the Disney Worlds were important, but the only one before that was KHI, which did a great job of making each of them relevant to the storyline as a whole. Either the main antagonist of the world was working with Maleficent to take over all the worlds or the Heartless had changed what the conflict was, or a little bit of both. I would be able to stomach that mistake from KHII if it didn't feel like such a step backwards from the first game.

If they really needed BBS to come out before they could do anything interesting with the characters they created for KHII, then they have made a huge mistake. There was no need for them to establish the specifics of anything for that game, such as who Xigbar lost his eye against and the context of that fight, but they should have known that Xigbar lost his eye against a Keyblade wielder at some point in the past. And that would be all they needed to know to work with KHII. They wouldn't have even needed to reveal it to the player as long as they knew it; there aren't exactly a lot of situations where Sora and Xigbar are going to sit down and chat with one another, so it would make sense if that information never quiet made it to Sora.

The first time they put a lot of bosses near the end was in CoM, while KHI only had Chernabog as the world boss of The End of the World and Ansem as the actual final boss. With how different the battle system in CoM is from KHI and KHII they should have taken more cues from KHI. And as I said, if they really needed to have a bunch of bosses in The World that Never Was, then all they needed to do was have a member or two survive their initial encounter with Sora.

I don't know. KHII is one of those games that I just want to like because of how much I enjoy the rest of the series, but I keep noticing all the little flaws in it.

Well, KHII might have its flaws, but personally I still really enjoy it; actually, I kinda liked going through the movies' plots, since I joined KH first for its Disney flair xD But I do see your point--the Organization just kinda sat back during the first half of the game and twiddled their thumbs. But you know, after CoM the group really just fell apart and became rather dysfunctional--at least, that's how it seemed to me. Everybody kinda went off and did their own thing. It has been a while since I've played, granted, and I'm only just getting through it again (and still on the first part) so... what do I know? xD



Anyway, guys, found something interesting today: Kingdom Hearts Insider teamed up with Game Trailers to do a series of videos explaining various KH mythos. Recently they posted a video attempting to explain the concept of time travel in the series.

[Here's a link to the article]

I think I'm still a little fuzzy on all the details, but at this point I'm just going with whatever xD Actually, the video helped me better understand what was going on with Sora's heart during DDD. I didn't play ReCoded at all, so I didn't know/understand that all the "hurt" from Ventus, Roxas, and Xion was wearing down on Sora's heart, building its darkness. Buuuut I finally watched the movie version so I get all that now. I think. xD

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Originally Posted by FedoraChar

Well, KHII might have its flaws, but personally I still really enjoy it; actually, I kinda liked going through the movies' plots, since I joined KH first for its Disney flair xD But I do see your point--the Organization just kinda sat back during the first half of the game and twiddled their thumbs. But you know, after CoM the group really just fell apart and became rather dysfunctional--at least, that's how it seemed to me. Everybody kinda went off and did their own thing. It has been a while since I've played, granted, and I'm only just getting through it again (and still on the first part) so... what do I know? xD

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The way that KHI gives a lot of emphasis to the Disney characters is one of its strongest elements. The way that Maleficent is in league with the other Disney villains and a major part of the story was facing each of them, as well as saving the Princesses of Heart are what make its story feel a little less convoluted...

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Originally Posted by FedoraChar

Anyway, guys, found something interesting today: Kingdom Hearts Insider teamed up with Game Trailers to do a series of videos explaining various KH mythos. Recently they posted a video attempting to explain the concept of time travel in the series.

[Here's a link to the article]

I think I'm still a little fuzzy on all the details, but at this point I'm just going with whatever xD Actually, the video helped me better understand what was going on with Sora's heart during DDD. I didn't play ReCoded at all, so I didn't know/understand that all the "hurt" from Ventus, Roxas, and Xion was wearing down on Sora's heart, building its darkness. Buuuut I finally watched the movie version so I get all that now. I think. xD

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Yeah I needed that video. Seeing that will help me out in my next DDD playthrough, I'm sure. @_@ I'm gonna watch the coded movie with weekend.

So I wasn't around for Valentine's Day... but this was so my theme song on the 14th:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiqmZLOaD8o

Did you find one? xD


(Haha, I just finished Atlantica up, and now part of me wishes that there had been singing in the Mulan world xD Can you picture Sora singing that song? I mean, he's not the best singer, but for some reason hearing him sing just cracks me up xD Wonder what Haley Joe Osmet thought when they told him he'd be singing in KHII)

XDDD I see Mulan and all I can think about is the funny variations of I'll Make a Man out of You.