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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AWA1997 View Post
    I’ve not played in GCEA before, so I have no experience with the old system, thus I feel my opinion should bear less weight than the others here. That being said, I will admit that leaving too much to the player is a bad idea, but if it’s two parties who need to figure something out, making it public helps, at least to get slightly different angles on the issue. On other sites Jan and I are on, I put her as my partner in running the RPs I make, and if we seem to hit a wall with our discussions on possible plot elements we’re not sure about or restrictions we need, I ask the rest of the group publicly.

    From the arguments I’ve seen, my first idea for a compromise is letting pokemon that are not available moving forward to become event rewards. For instance, the example with Shinx: after the first few routes, it is no longer available without backtracking, so it becomes eligible for being a random reward. However, if that is not a viable solution, I agree with the removal of said rule.

    Again, like I said, I don’t have any experience with the old system, so take my post with a grain of salt.
    You may be new but your opinion is just as valid. I see you saw the location guide lol

    Pokemon who are missed out on are always added back in. In the case of shinx or other limited pokemon. Its always a priority to get players those pokemon.





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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rival Max View Post
    You may be new but your opinion is just as valid. I see you saw the location guide lol

    Pokemon who are missed out on are always added back in. In the case of shinx or other limited pokemon. Its always a priority to get players those pokemon.
    If you say so. I mean, I just feel I don’t know enough about the overall situation to make a 100% fair judgement call on this matter, and also that I probably won’t ever know enough because I’ve never experienced the other side. I don’t feel that my opinion should be totally without impact, but also opinions such as those from Jan and, if I remember right, Brettles should be held a little higher than my own because they do know. Just my personal opinion about my personal opinion lol

    Also, I actually didn’t see the location guide. Desolate said “...So basically, if you are trying to complete the Pokedex, and don't catch Shinx in the first four routes...” and in the actual games Shinx is found on 202, 203, and 204, so I went off of that.

    That’s good to know.

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  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AWA1997 View Post
    If you say so. I mean, I just feel I don’t know enough about the overall situation to make a 100% fair judgement call on this matter, and also that I probably won’t ever know enough because I’ve never experienced the other side. I don’t feel that my opinion should be totally without impact, but also opinions such as those from Jan and, if I remember right, Brettles should be held a little higher than my own because they do know. Just my personal opinion about my personal opinion lol

    Also, I actually didn’t see the location guide. Desolate said “...So basically, if you are trying to complete the Pokedex, and don't catch Shinx in the first four routes...” and in the actual games Shinx is found on 202, 203, and 204, so I went off of that.

    That’s good to know.
    Jacobs example goes off the guide. Random pokemon given as eggs does not solve the issue. At the end of each gcea there has been a personal safari zone. The safari needs work but it is the best option option without random chance being involved to allow players to catch up.

    We also have two other ways. Jacob has a writing submission and I am thinking about incorporating a capture story section much like urpg so that trainers can build a dream team or catch missing pokemon.

    There are plenty of options here that dont involve changes a working system. So please dont worry about missing out on a pokemon. It hasnt been a problem thus far





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  5. #14
    My 2 cents worth :)
    I played a DnD game once where I started at level one with an intelligent +2 (+4 vs dragons) magical shortsword, and the magic items just kept rolling in. It was fantastic. The DM loved putting more and more magic items into it and seeing how creative we could get with them. It was awesome.

    Right now I am playing a DnD campaign where we after nearly a year we are about to hit level 6 and the party has 1 magic weapon between us. I am still hitting things with a non-magical dagger. This DM likes to run his campaign with few magic items and see how creative we can be without a lot of magic items. It is also awesome.

    Two different GMs with different priorities for what is allowed into their games does not make for one good game and one bad game. It makes for two different but, potentially, equally enjoyable games.

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  7. #15
    I came in like a wrecking ball... [Desolate Divine]'s Avatar
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    Woke up and saw a lot of things that need to be mentioned or corrected.
    @AWA1997
    For instance, the example with Shinx: after the first few routes, it is no longer available without backtracking, so it becomes eligible for being a random reward. However, if that is not a viable solution, I agree with the removal of said rule.
    On paper that could work. Once a Pokemon becomes no longer available in the wild we add it to the list of Pokemon that is available by events HOWEVER, I would not recommend it. That solution, like most solutions offered by Rival Max, are roundabout fixes that will require more work by the two of us, to achieve a similar result to removing the rule. Basically this and the aforementioned solutions are solutions that benefit the rule, not the game.
    @Rival Max
    I see you saw the location guide
    No, he just read my earlier posts, which make me question whether you did...

    Jacobs example goes off the guide. Random pokemon given as eggs does not solve the issue.
    This debate is not just about random eggs and you know it. It is about Pokemon that can be received for birthdays (and before you try to point out that these pokemon are available for birthdays, I am well aware of it), half birthdays, story and drawing contests and anything and all in between. So please don't feed inaccurate information to new players in order to sway their opinion. Players will not be getting another chance to catch a Pokemon they missed, purely based on an RNG under my proposal. It also means that I don't want them excluded from RNG such as these eggs, but this is about more than that and you know it.

    We also have two other ways. Jacob has a writing submission...
    A writing submission which would actually do a great job in helping players catch old Pokemon if it weren't restricted by this rule. Don't use my idea, which you are crippling with this rule, to back up your case.

    There are plenty of options here that dont involve changes a working system.
    If you have read my last two posts you would understand this isn't a working system. We have rules in place preventing players from doing what THEY want, in the name of keeping the fairness of a goal which firstly, doesn't can't even have an element of unfairness to players as it provides no advantages or disadvantages, as well as is not viable due to the sheer volume and cost. In five years of Hoenn, I received roughly 800 points alone for posting. That by my guess would be not even 10% of what would be needed to complete the Sinnoh Regional Dex.
    @Brettles
    Two different GMs with different priorities for what is allowed into their games does not make for one good game and one bad game. It makes for two different but, potentially, equally enjoyable games.
    Brettles has hit the nail right on the head, and provided the wisdom I have come to rely on from him. I am not asking you, Max, to change all GCEAs, from now and forever, to follow this rule. You're about to open the sequel to blizzard blue and I doubt that will be the last GCEA you GM. I am asking that for Platinum, the one that you said yourself that I have done a great job to get running and to manage, I be allowed to make decisions about rules like this that I think have a negative effect on the players. I think that after six years of helping you run hoenn, and the fact that Platinum would still be a pipe dream if not for me, and that I am running it because you said yourself you don't have time to, I should have earned the respect and the right to be able to make this decision.

    What Brettles is basically saying here, which is what I was trying to say at the beginning before this escalated into this debate, is you do you, I'll do me. Two different GMs with different priorities, running to slightly different games, both of which are enjoyable in their own way. That is a better solution to changing GCEA around this rule, creating more ongoing work for us, just for the sake of keeping this rule. It is not worth it.

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  9. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Desolate Divine View Post
    Woke up and saw a lot of things that need to be mentioned or corrected.
    @AWA1997

    On paper that could work. Once a Pokemon becomes no longer available in the wild we add it to the list of Pokemon that is available by events HOWEVER, I would not recommend it. That solution, like most solutions offered by Rival Max, are roundabout fixes that will require more work by the two of us, to achieve a similar result to removing the rule. Basically this and the aforementioned solutions are solutions that benefit the rule, not the game.
    @Rival Max

    No, he just read my earlier posts, which make me question whether you did...


    This debate is not just about random eggs and you know it. It is about Pokemon that can be received for birthdays (and before you try to point out that these pokemon are available for birthdays, I am well aware of it), half birthdays, story and drawing contests and anything and all in between. So please don't feed inaccurate information to new players in order to sway their opinion. Players will not be getting another chance to catch a Pokemon they missed, purely based on an RNG under my proposal. It also means that I don't want them excluded from RNG such as these eggs, but this is about more than that and you know it.


    A writing submission which would actually do a great job in helping players catch old Pokemon if it weren't restricted by this rule. Don't use my idea, which you are crippling with this rule, to back up your case.



    If you have read my last two posts you would understand this isn't a working system. We have rules in place preventing players from doing what THEY want, in the name of keeping the fairness of a goal which firstly, doesn't can't even have an element of unfairness to players as it provides no advantages or disadvantages, as well as is not viable due to the sheer volume and cost. In five years of Hoenn, I received roughly 800 points alone for posting. That by my guess would be not even 10% of what would be needed to complete the Sinnoh Regional Dex.
    @Brettles

    Brettles has hit the nail right on the head, and provided the wisdom I have come to rely on from him. I am not asking you, Max, to change all GCEAs, from now and forever, to follow this rule. You're about to open the sequel to blizzard blue and I doubt that will be the last GCEA you GM. I am asking that for Platinum, the one that you said yourself that I have done a great job to get running and to manage, I be allowed to make decisions about rules like this that I think have a negative effect on the players. I think that after six years of helping you run hoenn, and the fact that Platinum would still be a pipe dream if not for me, and that I am running it because you said yourself you don't have time to, I should have earned the respect and the right to be able to make this decision.

    What Brettles is basically saying here, which is what I was trying to say at the beginning before this escalated into this debate, is you do you, I'll do me. Two different GMs with different priorities, running to slightly different games, both of which are enjoyable in their own way. That is a better solution to changing GCEA around this rule, creating more ongoing work for us, just for the sake of keeping this rule. It is not worth it.
    I understand what he is saying but the sentiment doesnt apply to this as its not a series of individual rps. The analogy works great for separate rps. GCEA is not separate role plays. There are core rules that drive this game. Im not sure how to say that in a way that you understand.

    Also its a bit of exaggeration to say not allowing dex pokemon to appear as random gifts is crippling to creative freedom. Ive never had trouble coming up with ideas with that base rule.

    If you have a suggestion for fixing the system and maintaining its integrity. I have read all the comments and all of them have solutions within the story. If I need to create a more structured rule list I will do that so that this kind or misunderstanding does not happen again.





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  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rival Max View Post
    I understand what he is saying but the sentiment doesnt apply to this as its not a series of individual rps. The analogy works great for separate rps. GCEA is not separate role plays. There are core rules that drive this game. Im not sure how to say that in a way that you understand.

    Also its a bit of exaggeration to say not allowing dex pokemon to appear as random gifts is crippling to creative freedom. Ive never had trouble coming up with ideas with that base rule.

    If you have a suggestion for fixing the system and maintaining its integrity. I have read all the comments and all of them have solutions within the story. If I need to create a more structured rule list I will do that so that this kind or misunderstanding does not happen again.
    Why can't it apply? It is a series of separate roleplays. Platinum version would be a perfect test run for this kind of thing since it literally takes place in an entirely separate universe from the Kanto and Hoenn series. This allows for a reason why certain rules can be bent or changed. And again, you gave Jacob creative freedom to run this how he wanted. I get you're the owner but if you want GCEA to potentially improve you should allow him to test run this and like the others said you don't even have to include this in Decimation Blue if you don't want to. This change can solely apply to Platinum.

    No comment on my suggestions huh? Cool cool. I thought my suggestions did pretty well in kind of maintaining the integrity of the system and patching it up a bit to be more manageable for all parties involved without greatly altering it but seeing as you've completely ignored my entire post I guess you disagree.
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  12. #18
    I came in like a wrecking ball... [Desolate Divine]'s Avatar
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    @Rival Max,

    It is like you're choosing to ignore everything I say...

    Also its a bit of exaggeration to say not allowing dex pokemon to appear as random gifts is crippling to creative freedom. Ive never had trouble coming up with ideas with that base rule.
    As I said in my previous post, which you have conveniently forgotten about, not all gifts will be random. The current GCEA Sinnoh event is random yes. But there will be events later where players will have a choice. That is when this rule especially needs to be dead.

    If you have a suggestion for fixing the system and maintaining its integrity. I have read all the comments and all of them have solutions within the story. If I need to create a more structured rule list I will do that so that this kind or misunderstanding does not happen again.
    Tell me, Max, in your own words, how does removing this rule take away from the integrity of the game? How? Because your main reason, I have debunked. Twice. I repeated myself. So unless you have another reason why removing this rule will take away from the integrity of the game, you are either just ignoring my posts outright, or lying to everyone. So is there another reason, why removing this rule will take away from the integrity of the game, that you haven't told us? If you say it gives an unfair advantage, then this is a lost cause...

    You need to let go. It seems like you care more about holding on to this rule than what those who are actually running the game, and those who are playing it think. As Noble said, a game maker who doesn't listen to feedback is doomed.

  13. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Desolate Divine View Post
    @Rival Max,

    It is like you're choosing to ignore everything I say...



    As I said in my previous post, which you have conveniently forgotten about, not all gifts will be random. The current GCEA Sinnoh event is random yes. But there will be events later where players will have a choice. That is when this rule especially needs to be dead.



    Tell me, Max, in your own words, how does removing this rule take away from the integrity of the game? How? Because your main reason, I have debunked. Twice. I repeated myself. So unless you have another reason why removing this rule will take away from the integrity of the game, you are either just ignoring my posts outright, or lying to everyone. So is there another reason, why removing this rule will take away from the integrity of the game, that you haven't told us? If you say it gives an unfair advantage, then this is a lost cause...

    You need to let go. It seems like you care more about holding on to this rule than what those who are actually running the game, and those who are playing it think. As Noble said, a game maker who doesn't listen to feedback is doomed.
    With all due respect to noble she is wrong. The game has done fine and feedback is taken.
    I have stated multiples times as a core part of gcea is catching them all. Given dex pokemon creates an unfair advantages. Your solution is just to abolish the rule because of random rng rolls. Which is the most basic form of whats being said. I have addressed the issue in a way that I feel solves this problem. Less pokemon and direct pokemon appearances. Now if you have any other suggestions to make it easier outside of just dropping a rule that has worked for the course of all of gcea until a random roll got us here. Please try to think of ways that we can fix the issue without changing core systems.

    There is an old expression. If it aint broke, dont fix it





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  14. #20
    I came in like a wrecking ball... [Desolate Divine]'s Avatar
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    You everything you just said I have proven at some point or another to be wrong. I am not gonna waste my breath debating with a brick wall until the others have had their say. Not worth just being flat out ignored.

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