View Poll Results: Should Orin be assassinated?

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  • Yes

    1 25.00%
  • No

    3 75.00%
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  1. #11
    Solution: Build Two Cages.

    Tonight we will likely learn if the Stalkers kill in a set order or if they just go depending on which one is available. If it's in a set order, we can let Orin free for most nights. In other words, if he only kills on a Sunday, he can walk the streets Monday through Saturday.

    Furthermore, if we build MULTIPLE cages and restrain MULTIPLE Stalkers, and they each have a designated kill day, then by locking up one or two, we give ourselves extra actions, free days -- even if it requires one person's action to restrain.
    All I wish is that we could take some of the more idle players and employ them to do the jobs we don't want to do!

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  3. #12
    Ace Trainer Lychee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truly View Post
    Solution: Build Two Cages.

    Tonight we will likely learn if the Stalkers kill in a set order or if they just go depending on which one is available. If it's in a set order, we can let Orin free for most nights. In other words, if he only kills on a Sunday, he can walk the streets Monday through Saturday.

    Furthermore, if we build MULTIPLE cages and restrain MULTIPLE Stalkers, and they each have a designated kill day, then by locking up one or two, we give ourselves extra actions, free days -- even if it requires one person's action to restrain.
    All I wish is that we could take some of the more idle players and employ them to do the jobs we don't want to do!
    In the rules, it describes that the stalkers will be selected via RNG roll, so I dont think it's likely they keep taking turns. I just assumed we would get one of each stalker killing before it turns into a free-for-all (otherwise we may never see some of the stalkers kill at all! RNG is a sly beast).

    As for building more restrain cages- it's a good idea! Thinking outside the box! Unfortunately that doesnt change the wording of the written rules, which don't specify it's one restrain per cage created. Let's call in our expert panelist @Neo Emolga to answer to that!
    Neo, can we build more than one cage? Can we restrain more than one pokemon that way?

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  5. #13
    "I was stupid... So stupid"
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    At this point we should not assasinate anyone. Maybe once we have more stalkers than we can restrain we should start considering it, but at this point we should in no way be damning Orin to eternal punishment just because it's faster.

    If we complete the Sin Purge Ritual then everyone is saved. Apart from the ones we kill beforehand. So stave off the murder until after we know that the ritual isn't likely to work.

    I would be more than willing to restrain Orin any time it's required, but I have been healing everyone up 'til now.

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    Lychee 

  7. #14
    Ace Trainer Lychee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shruikan View Post
    At this point we should not assasinate anyone. Maybe once we have more stalkers than we can restrain we should start considering it, but at this point we should in no way be damning Orin to eternal punishment just because it's faster.

    If we complete the Sin Purge Ritual then everyone is saved. Apart from the ones we kill beforehand. So stave off the murder until after we know that the ritual isn't likely to work.

    I would be more than willing to restrain Orin any time it's required, but I have been healing everyone up 'til now.
    Well ok- we do already have more stalkers than we can restrain!
    I know Orin is confirmed as Epsilon, but im almost 100% sure Yurtag the Palpitoed is Indulge. He is most likely angry about getting rejected by every food joint in town and also Shilamora, plus... you know how a pokemon would have to be hypnotised to eat that much? Well, his pokemon type can do that.

  8. #15
    The thing is, Orin isn't our only concern. Assassinating Orin could save someone else -- or save a lot of pokemon, as we use the actions currently spent on him to complete the Ritual.
    We're concerned about his soul, but what happens to the souls of those killed by Stalkers?

    I believe the question we're meant to ask ourselves is, is the well-being of one pokemon as important as that of multiple others? And, what if it's someone mean and old and bad who nobody likes and doesn't do much? Is it worth that Tepig kid being killed? Or the Decidueye that we've wasted 4 actions on? Is giving up on Orin and his, let's be fair, miserable existence worth that Alolan Sandslash getting killed, and the Sandshrew kid ending up like Dee'mang? Traumatized and friendless and orphaned and adopted by an abusive parent?

    And honestly, what happens to the soul of a Pokemon in Salvage Keep when they die naturally? Do we have a good and bad place? Are souls returned to the pool to be drawn again, or reassembled? Are they simply dissipated into the air? What about the soul of an old, dry, bitter man with hatred and murder in his heart? Even if he's spared *our* judgement, what's to say he's not damned anyway?

    And I think it's a valid take, to think we ought to worry about saving Pokemon's lives and making those lives better, which we CAN do and see, instead of worrying about what MIGHT happen to one's soul after life, which we have no idea about.

    Or, well, some of you might. But I haven't played before, so I'm not concrete on the cosmology.

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    Lychee 

  10. #16
    ALSO:
    If only ONE Stalker makes a kill per night, at random, we honestly don't even need to restrain him. Just let him free to wander and kill, because it's either him or some Stalker else.

  11. #17
    Cheers and good times! Neo Emolga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lychee View Post
    In the rules, it describes that the stalkers will be selected via RNG roll, so I dont think it's likely they keep taking turns. I just assumed we would get one of each stalker killing before it turns into a free-for-all (otherwise we may never see some of the stalkers kill at all! RNG is a sly beast).

    As for building more restrain cages- it's a good idea! Thinking outside the box! Unfortunately that doesnt change the wording of the written rules, which don't specify it's one restrain per cage created. Let's call in our expert panelist @Neo Emolga to answer to that!
    Neo, can we build more than one cage? Can we restrain more than one pokemon that way?
    You can totally build multiple cages, but yeah, only one Pokemon per cage per night you're restraining them.

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  13. #18
    "I was stupid... So stupid"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truly View Post
    The thing is, Orin isn't our only concern. Assassinating Orin could save someone else -- or save a lot of pokemon, as we use the actions currently spent on him to complete the Ritual.
    We're concerned about his soul, but what happens to the souls of those killed by Stalkers?


    I believe the question we're meant to ask ourselves is, is the well-being of one pokemon as important as that of multiple others? And, what if it's someone mean and old and bad who nobody likes and doesn't do much? Is it worth that Tepig kid being killed? Or the Decidueye that we've wasted 4 actions on? Is giving up on Orin and his, let's be fair, miserable existence worth that Alolan Sandslash getting killed, and the Sandshrew kid ending up like Dee'mang? Traumatized and friendless and orphaned and adopted by an abusive parent?

    And honestly, what happens to the soul of a Pokemon in Salvage Keep when they die naturally? Do we have a good and bad place? Are souls returned to the pool to be drawn again, or reassembled? Are they simply dissipated into the air? What about the soul of an old, dry, bitter man with hatred and murder in his heart? Even if he's spared *our* judgement, what's to say he's not damned anyway?

    And I think it's a valid take, to think we ought to worry about saving Pokemon's lives and making those lives better, which we CAN do and see, instead of worrying about what MIGHT happen to one's soul after life, which we have no idea about.

    Or, well, some of you might. But I haven't played before, so I'm not concrete on the cosmology.
    You are saying that one pokemons life isn't worth sacrificing several others, and I agree. But we're not talking about a life, we're talking about eternity.
    What you are suggesting is like cutting off someone's hand to sell so you can buy candy for some orphans. The masses are happy for a few hours, and the other guy is crippled for the rest of his life. There's nothing saying that he won't lose his hand in the future anyway, so that's perfectly fine, right?

    I agree that we shouldn't worry about what might happen. Assasinating Orin will guarentee that he gets a bad afterlife. What we can do is not kill him and give him a chnce to avoid it, just like everyone else has.

    I agree that it is a valid take, but it is one that I STRONGLY disagree with.



    Regardless, with confermation that we can make multiple cages, once complete we can restrain multiple pokemon. Therefore, the pressing reason to kill Orin is gone.

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  15. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shruikan View Post
    Regardless, with confermation that we can make multiple cages, once complete we can restrain multiple pokemon. Therefore, the pressing reason to kill Orin is gone.
    Perhaps.
    Now all that's left is to urge Morzone to actually play to the strengths he chose so we actually can build a cage.

    edit:
    ok and actually
    Do we know what happens to the soul of a pokemon killed by stalkers? Is it not claimed by them as well?


    and like, it's not "oh he might lose his hand later in life." He might lose his hand very very soon. He doesn't use his hand. But if he used his hand, he'd use it for beating those children I'm trying to give candy to.
    IDK, flabebe.

    AND, it's a choice that Orin made for himself. If we weren't there, based on his own choices, he'd kill a bunch of pokemon as Epsilon, THE WORLD WOULD BE CLAIMED BY STALKERS, and then his damned soul would be taken. By his own choice. Even if it was made in a moment of weakness or a fit of rage. Why is he worth protecting from himself over protecting others from himself?

    From a game standpoint, there's no reason keep him alive.
    From a game standpoint, there's all the more reason to assassinate him. As the player count dwindles our actions are drastically cut in number, making the Ritual less and less likely to be found and completed.
    @Lychee, maybe you can tell me the number of preventable deaths that will occur before we are forced to assassinate Orin anyway. Obviously, the upper limit is 25.

    :p
    I get pretty caught up in it, I guess.
    Last edited by Truly; 10-01-2019 at 06:04 AM.

  16. #20
    "I was stupid... So stupid"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truly View Post
    Perhaps.
    Now all that's left is to urge Morzone to actually play to the strengths he chose so we actually can build a cage.

    edit:
    ok and actually
    Do we know what happens to the soul of a pokemon killed by stalkers? Is it not claimed by them as well?
    No, we don't know. But as you said earlier, it's better to focus on what we can do and know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Truly View Post
    and like, it's not "oh he might lose his hand later in life." He might lose his hand very very soon. He doesn't use his hand. But if he used his hand, he'd use it for beating those children I'm trying to give candy to.
    IDK, flabebe.

    AND, it's a choice that Orin made for himself. If we weren't there, based on his own choices, he'd kill a bunch of pokemon as Epsilon, THE WORLD WOULD BE CLAIMED BY STALKERS, and then his damned soul would be taken. By his own choice. Even if it was made in a moment of weakness or a fit of rage. Why is he worth protecting from himself over protecting others from himself?
    Ok then. Another way. Is it ok to kill a guy to cure a town of a non-life threatening disease that doctors are working on a cure for as we speak?
    It really doesn't matter what the person's done or if they deserve it. It is not our place to decide that. We were sent here to protect the pokemon of Salvage Keep, and like it or not, Orin is one too. If he would be damned if we weren't here is irrelevent, as we are here, and can make things right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truly View Post
    From a game standpoint, there's no reason keep him alive.
    From a game standpoint, there's all the more reason to assassinate him. As the player count dwindles our actions are drastically cut in number, making the Ritual less and less likely to be found and completed.
    @Lychee, maybe you can tell me the number of preventable deaths that will occur before we are forced to assassinate Orin anyway. Obviously, the upper limit is 25.

    :p
    I get pretty caught up in it, I guess.
    Yes, from a game standpoint it makes sense. I am not and never will be focusing only on a game standpoint. The point where we are condemning someone's soul just because it's easier/more efficient gameplay wise is that point where you lose one of you healers, as I will take no part in such a game.

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