[PXFIRE] [SU/DS] PXFIRE II Roleplay: Convergence

[K'sariya]

Only just realized this, but @Neo Emolga and @Morzone :

Another question! How "sapient" are Pokemon? Does intelligence vary between species, or are they all sapient? If so, can they communicate with humans; if yes, how?

I'd say they're all equally sapient, at about the same level as Pikachu in the anime. They can kind of communicate with humans, but only with actions; Psychic pokemon and ones with auras like Lucario would be able to send thoughts with telepathy, but it would be more feelings than actual words, and otherwise it's more a game of charades to get across the point.

I think this causes a few issues with some of the scenarios you guys have set up--might be worth re-thinking your plotlines, or at least how much information your characters would know that they've previously learned from dialogue with Pokemon, as this dialogue wouldn't have happened, or at least would have happened much less clearly and with much more difficulty. Was from the first page, so was easy to miss (I missed the question about Pokeballs), but hopefully having caught it sooner than later will help!

[Morzone]

Only just realized this, but @Neo Emolga and @Morzone :



I think this causes a few issues with some of the scenarios you guys have set up--might be worth re-thinking your plotlines, or at least how much information your characters would know that they've previously learned from dialogue with Pokemon, as this dialogue wouldn't have happened, or at least would have happened much less clearly and with much more difficulty. Was from the first page, so was easy to miss (I missed the question about Pokeballs), but hopefully having caught it sooner than later will help!

Hmm... well that does make my last post kind of awkward, even if it is a conversation between pokemon and not pokemon and human. Gardevoir is a psychic type so they'd already be able to converse with humans -mainly just Leo- at a higher ability than other pokemon. And while Neo's character is a pokemon now, they still have the mind of a human so communication with other humans is understandable, especially as he did have to go through charades-like messaging until he got a chance to write.

Still I can't deny I've implied in my posts that Gardevoir and Leo have conversed more directly than just sharing feeling-thoughts. And Ninetales isn't actually a psychic type. Though what the ninetales did was based off of legends the surround the pokemon, mainly stemming from the PMD games. Whether or not the humans could actually understand the ninetales' threats in the PMD games is never really questioned though.

Well, I'll wait for Shruikan's input. hopefully they'll address it when the scores come out.

[Neo Emolga]

Only just realized this, but @Neo Emolga and @Morzone :

I think this causes a few issues with some of the scenarios you guys have set up--might be worth re-thinking your plotlines, or at least how much information your characters would know that they've previously learned from dialogue with Pokemon, as this dialogue wouldn't have happened, or at least would have happened much less clearly and with much more difficulty. Was from the first page, so was easy to miss (I missed the question about Pokeballs), but hopefully having caught it sooner than later will help!

Yeah, to Morzone's point, I think both of us entered a kind of inner-level when it comes to Pokémon communication based on special circumstances. In this case it's Gardevoir communicating to other Pokémon, which would make sense. And on the other side, Nathan becoming a Pokémon himself as part of the Ninetales curse, thus learning how to communicate with other Pokémon now. Prior to this Nathan didn't understand anything Pokémon were saying because he was human and it was as Shruikan declared that cross-communication between humans and Pokémon could only be accomplished through body language.

And sure, Ninetales isn't formally a psychic type, though there's enough lore behind Ninetales that implies it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for the one Nathan encountered to telepathically communicate with him, especially just after inadvertently triggering the 1,000 year Ninetales curse (as a kind of servitude bond).

So yeah, I don't think we're that far out in left field, but yeah, I think Shruikan's input on this would be good to rationalize out what to do and where we go from here.

[K'sariya]

Hmm... well that does make my last post kind of awkward, even if it is a conversation between pokemon and not pokemon and human. Gardevoir is a psychic type so they'd already be able to converse with humans -mainly just Leo- at a higher ability than other pokemon. And while Neo's character is a pokemon now, they still have the mind of a human so communication with other humans is understandable, especially as he did have to go through charades-like messaging until he got a chance to write.

Still I can't deny I've implied in my posts that Gardevoir and Leo have conversed more directly than just sharing feeling-thoughts. And Ninetales isn't actually a psychic type. Though what the ninetales did was based off of legends the surround the pokemon, mainly stemming from the PMD games. Whether or not the humans could actually understand the ninetales' threats in the PMD games is never really questioned though.

Well, I'll wait for Shruikan's input. hopefully they'll address it when the scores come out.

Yeah, to Morzone's point, I think both of us entered a kind of inner-level when it comes to Pokémon communication based on special circumstances. In this case it's Gardevoir communicating to other Pokémon, which would make sense. And on the other side, Nathan becoming a Pokémon himself as part of the Ninetales curse, thus learning how to communicate with other Pokémon now. Prior to this Nathan didn't understand anything Pokémon were saying because he was human and it was as Shruikan declared that cross-communication between humans and Pokémon could only be accomplished through body language.

And sure, Ninetales isn't formally a psychic type, though there's enough lore behind Ninetales that implies it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for the one Nathan encountered to telepathically communicate with him, especially just after inadvertently triggering the 1,000 year Ninetales curse (as a kind of servitude bond).

So yeah, I don't think we're that far out in left field, but yeah, I think Shruikan's input on this would be good to rationalize out what to do and where we go from here.

Completely and totally aware of the Ninetales lore--not a part of the point at all, it wouldn't matter what Pokemon it was if it were a Psychic type or a pseudo lore one. I didn't even mention Ninetales in my post. I was pointing out that Shruikan has already expressly said that that in this canon, even Psychic types would still only be able to send feelings instead of actual words, and that level of sapience is the maximum communication ability from Pokemon to human. From what I understood of this post and the use of first-person responding to the presumably red words of a Ninetales, you (Neo) were having your character directly communicate even before turning into a Ninetales. Yes, now you have entered that "inner level," and yes, you are now a sapient human being inside of a Psychic Pokemon's body and likely capable of that, but just pointing out that mistakes were made prior to that so that those mistakes don't happen again, because it's easy to do on accident, no big deal.

Like I said, missing the knowledge that they wouldn't be able to do this is fine, we're human, it happens and it's an easy thing to do. It's okay to make a mistake, let's just acknowledge mistakes were made and move on knowing better. Or, maybe we'll get lucky and Shruikan might shift the canon to accommodate. Totally up to them as the DM on what they want to do. Either way, it's all good and we're all up to speed.

[Neo Emolga]

Completely and totally aware of the Ninetales lore--not a part of the point at all, it wouldn't matter what Pokemon it was if it were a Psychic type or a pseudo lore one. I didn't even mention Ninetales in my post. I was pointing out that Shruikan has already expressly said that that in this canon, even Psychic types would still only be able to send feelings instead of actual words, and that level of sapience is the maximum communication ability from Pokemon to human. From what I understood of this post and the use of first-person responding to the presumably red words of a Ninetales, you (Neo) were having your character directly communicate even before turning into a Ninetales. Yes, now you have entered that "inner level," and yes, you are now a sapient human being inside of a Psychic Pokemon's body and likely capable of that, but just pointing out that mistakes were made prior to that so that those mistakes don't happen again, because it's easy to do on accident, no big deal.

Like I said, missing the knowledge that they wouldn't be able to do this is fine, we're human, it happens and it's an easy thing to do. It's okay to make a mistake, let's just acknowledge mistakes were made and move on knowing better. Or, maybe we'll get lucky and Shruikan might shift the canon to accommodate. Totally up to them as the DM on what they want to do. Either way, it's all good and we're all up to speed.

Yeah, I realized I messed up, I was thinking along the lines of the anime and games with this regard, since I'd say that's what's used most of the time if it's not a PMD setting.

I'm going to try and correct this since it does create a lot of disconnects and it makes it difficult to keep going when there's a double standard with the RP canon and how Pokémon communicate. With that said, I'm going to revise what's in post #12 and then delete what's in post #14, #19, #26, and #28.

Nathan "Neo" Winterfield won't pull the tails of the Ninetales and thus, won't trigger a curse to become one himself. So consider everything that happened after that moment null and void and just pretend like it never happened. I think the only person this really affects is Morzone, but I think if he does the same, we can get around this.

Otherwise it's broken and just doesn't make sense, as you said.

[K'sariya]

Yeah, I realized I messed up, I was thinking along the lines of the anime and games with this regard, since I'd say that's what's used most of the time if it's not a PMD setting.

I'm going to try and correct this since it does create a lot of disconnects and it makes it difficult to keep going with there's a double standard with the RP canon and how Pokémon communicate. With that said, I'm going to eevise what's in post #12 and then delete what's in post #14, #19, #26, and #28.

Nathan "Neo" Winterfield won't pull the tails of the Ninetales and thus, won't trigger a curse to become one himself. So consider everything that happened after that moment null and void and just pretend like it never happened. I think the only person this really affects is Morzone, but I think if he does the same, we can get around this.

Otherwise it's broken and just doesn't make sense, as you said.

Definitely wait for Shruikan to chip in, I think--I'd hate for you to lose all of that hard work unnecessarily! ;__; Make a back-up plan, I think, but let's wait until @Shruikan gives an opinion before we drastically change anything.

[Morzone]

@Neo Emolga I don't think there'd need to be a complete wipe of all that, it shouldn't be too hard to adjust what happened so that Nathan doesn't actually hear any words. Just having the ninetales react unexpectedly, overly vicious to having the tale grabbed should be enough, given the proper re-wording. In your post in response to mine your NPC characters claimed they ran into a psychic that could control emotion, so it's not that hard for me to get rid of the "You're not welcome, go back" quote and just have gardevoir force fear upon them.

As for the actual transformation it may take a little work, but the ninetales could still transform Nathan and explain what happened after he'd been transformed (since they'd both be pokemon at that point) I myself need to go back to my first post and change the dialogue between gardevoir and Leo to feelings/emotions but that shouldn't bee that hard.

[Neo Emolga]

Definitely wait for Shruikan to chip in, I think--I'd hate for you to lose all of that hard work unnecessarily! ;__; Make a back-up plan, I think, but let's wait until @Shruikan gives an opinion before we drastically change anything.

@Neo Emolga I don't think there'd need to be a complete wipe of all that, it shouldn't be too hard to adjust what happened so that Nathan doesn't actually hear any words. Just having the ninetales react unexpectedly, overly vicious to having the tale grabbed should be enough, given the proper re-wording. In your post in response to mine your NPC characters claimed they ran into a psychic that could control emotion, so it's not that hard for me to get rid of the "You're not welcome, go back" quote and just have gardevoir force fear upon them.

As for the actual transformation it may take a little work, but the ninetales could still transform Nathan and explain what happened after he'd been transformed (since they'd both be pokemon at that point) I myself need to go back to my first post and change the dialogue between gardevoir and Leo to feelings/emotions but that shouldn't bee that hard.

I guess that's true, I'll try to revise it instead. But yeah, I think both Morzone and I would need to do a little editing work to make it right, but like you both said, it's not impossible.

I'll let people know when the revisions have been made, but generally what happens after he become the Ninetales will be pretty much the same.

EDIT: Okay, I made a whole slew of revisions and it should be correct, but if something still looks off, just let me know and I'll fix it up. :3

[Shruikan]

@Neo Emolga @Morzone @K'sariya

Yeah, I'd noticed th inconsistency when re-reading the posts for the scoring. Honestly, I'd say it's not that big a deal, and most definitely not "delete the last 4 posts of storyline" worthy. I mean, yes, for consistency they wouldn't have been able to talk like that, but everything that was said could have easily been communicated through emotions & such. So you'd lose a few points in the continuity catagory, but wouldn't break the plot or anything, as long as you are aware going forwards.

I was planning working on the judging yesterday, but with my terrible planning skills I forgot the power was being shut off for the day. So I haven't had time to do it all today, (And with the edits might have to go through some of it again now anyway :/)

[Bulbasaur]

@Shruikan, I would really like at least some feedback on my RPing so I know what to improve on for the remaining days of week 6.