Assassinate Orin? [Closed]

[Truly]

Regardless, with confermation that we can make multiple cages, once complete we can restrain multiple pokemon. Therefore, the pressing reason to kill Orin is gone.

Perhaps.
Now all that's left is to urge Morzone to actually play to the strengths he chose so we actually can build a cage.

edit:
ok and actually
Do we know what happens to the soul of a pokemon killed by stalkers? Is it not claimed by them as well?


and like, it's not "oh he might lose his hand later in life." He might lose his hand very very soon. He doesn't use his hand. But if he used his hand, he'd use it for beating those children I'm trying to give candy to.
IDK, flabebe.

AND, it's a choice that Orin made for himself. If we weren't there, based on his own choices, he'd kill a bunch of pokemon as Epsilon, THE WORLD WOULD BE CLAIMED BY STALKERS, and then his damned soul would be taken. By his own choice. Even if it was made in a moment of weakness or a fit of rage. Why is he worth protecting from himself over protecting others from himself?

From a game standpoint, there's no reason keep him alive.
From a game standpoint, there's all the more reason to assassinate him. As the player count dwindles our actions are drastically cut in number, making the Ritual less and less likely to be found and completed.
@Lychee, maybe you can tell me the number of preventable deaths that will occur before we are forced to assassinate Orin anyway. Obviously, the upper limit is 25.

:p
I get pretty caught up in it, I guess.

[Shruikan]

Perhaps.
Now all that's left is to urge Morzone to actually play to the strengths he chose so we actually can build a cage.

edit:
ok and actually
Do we know what happens to the soul of a pokemon killed by stalkers? Is it not claimed by them as well?

No, we don't know. But as you said earlier, it's better to focus on what we can do and know.

and like, it's not "oh he might lose his hand later in life." He might lose his hand very very soon. He doesn't use his hand. But if he used his hand, he'd use it for beating those children I'm trying to give candy to.
IDK, flabebe.

AND, it's a choice that Orin made for himself. If we weren't there, based on his own choices, he'd kill a bunch of pokemon as Epsilon, THE WORLD WOULD BE CLAIMED BY STALKERS, and then his damned soul would be taken. By his own choice. Even if it was made in a moment of weakness or a fit of rage. Why is he worth protecting from himself over protecting others from himself?

Ok then. Another way. Is it ok to kill a guy to cure a town of a non-life threatening disease that doctors are working on a cure for as we speak?
It really doesn't matter what the person's done or if they deserve it. It is not our place to decide that. We were sent here to protect the pokemon of Salvage Keep, and like it or not, Orin is one too. If he would be damned if we weren't here is irrelevent, as we are here, and can make things right.

From a game standpoint, there's no reason keep him alive.
From a game standpoint, there's all the more reason to assassinate him. As the player count dwindles our actions are drastically cut in number, making the Ritual less and less likely to be found and completed.
@Lychee, maybe you can tell me the number of preventable deaths that will occur before we are forced to assassinate Orin anyway. Obviously, the upper limit is 25.

:p
I get pretty caught up in it, I guess.

Yes, from a game standpoint it makes sense. I am not and never will be focusing only on a game standpoint. The point where we are condemning someone's soul just because it's easier/more efficient gameplay wise is that point where you lose one of you healers, as I will take no part in such a game.

[Truly]

Ok then. Another way. Is it ok to kill a guy to cure a town of a non-life threatening disease that doctors are working on a cure for as we speak?

More accurate example, is it OK to kill a guy with a life-threatening disease to cure a town of a life-threatening disease that doctors are working on a cure for as we speak?

Because that's what we're dealing with.

It really doesn't matter what the person's done or if they deserve it. It is not our place to decide that.

I mean, it literally is.

We were sent here to protect the pokemon of Salvage Keep, and like it or not, Orin is one too. If he would be damned if we weren't here is irrelevent, as we are here, and can make things right.

It's not irrelevant. No matter what you decide here, a sacrifice is being made. So it's not irrelevant, who is sacrificed is literally up to us.

You want to put not just 1 person, not just 7 people, not just the town of Salvage Keep and surrounding areas, but the whole world that it's situated on in peril -- that is to say, demon-claimed souls -- over executing the 1 person who does not provide value, wants to hurt others, and chose to give up his soul. Not risk his soul. He didn't know we were showing up. He knowingly damned himself in order to do more harm.
We are here to protect the Pokemon of Salvage Keep from him.



But fine. If this is how you want it, we'll do it like this:

No more playing around. No more needlessly talking to Pokemon, no more healing at night (we have berries), no more restraining Orin (someone else will kill in his stead), no more scavenging or making cages (I was wrong, it'll just waste turns), no more investigating Pokemon (we know who the Stalkers are, we just can't do anything about it.)

No hanging out with Vex or learning about cool or fun subplots. If we're here to protect the town and the world, including the unrepentant serial killers, then we start focusing our attention on Searching and solving puzzles. To protect and save as many Pokemon as we can.

Yes, from a game standpoint it makes sense. I am not and never will be focusing only on a game standpoint. The point where we are condemning someone's soul just because it's easier/more efficient gameplay wise is that point where you lose one of you healers, as I will take no part in such a game.

Now it's 100% a game standpoint. No more fun stuff -- only urgently piecing together the Sin Purge Ritual until it's done, lest Salvage Keep fall into the claws of the Stalkers, and all their souls be claimed.

[Noblejanobii]

No more playing around. No more needlessly talking to Pokemon, no more healing at night (we have berries), no more restraining Orin (someone else will kill in his stead), no more scavenging or making cages (I was wrong, it'll just waste turns), no more investigating Pokemon (we know who the Stalkers are, we just can't do anything about it.)

No hanging out with Vex or learning about cool or fun subplots. If we're here to protect the town and the world, including the unrepentant serial killers, then we start focusing our attention on Searching and solving puzzles. To protect and save as many Pokemon as we can.

I will point out that certain things like interviews, investigations, scavenging, the side quests, etc. might actually help in piecing together the Sin Purge Ritual since in the past we needed to locate items to be used for it and those were obtained by various means, such as how like Lillian has made people compliant to get certain items. So I think ruling those aspects out entirely might be jumping the gun a bit too quick since they're gamplay elements that were included for a reason.

That said I think the debate has started to get a tad intense so while it seems to be mostly finished, please just remember that this is a game we're all playing for fun! Since this is a forum, it can be really hard to gather tone and the use of things like bolding text can be seen as aggressive which might discourage people from wanting to participate, and we definitely don't want that since we want all hands on deck to finish the ritual. So just try to keep that in mind for future discussion. Thanks!

[Truly]

...things like interviews, investigations, scavenging, the side quests, etc. might actually help in piecing together the Sin Purge Ritual since in the past we needed to locate items to be used for it and those were obtained by various means...

If Lita finds we need to talk to an NPC via Clairvoyance, we'll go do that. If we get a lead some other way that points us to talking to an NPC, we'll consider it. But talking to the Miltank because she has a sidequest? Probably not. And, when someone goes off the rails and does it anyway, if the mission isn't instrumental in sorting the Sin Purge Ritual, then we skip it.

What I'm ruling out is fraternizing. Because if we're really concerned with protecting these Pokemon, then we won't let them die while we play with ourselves. Right? What I'm saying is, no more distractions. Because we need all hands on deck if we want to get the "perfect ending" where innocents are merely tortured to death, and nobody has consequences for their actions.


aaaaanyway, I'm making a thread listing all the places we haven't searched yet, for a little clarity. Searching locations is going to be top priority starting now. We're very behind.

[Noblejanobii]

That said I think the debate has started to get a tad intense so while it seems to be mostly finished, please just remember that this is a game we're all playing for fun! Since this is a forum, it can be really hard to gather tone and the use of things like bolding text can be seen as aggressive which might discourage people from wanting to participate, and we definitely don't want that since we want all hands on deck to finish the ritual. So just try to keep that in mind for future discussion. Thanks!

Yes please remember my warning from earlier. We're just here to have fun and if you really don't agree with one side or the other you could in theory just do what you want since there's nothing stopping you from doing so. Just do what YOU think is most advantageous. And please please please be courteous!

[Shruikan]

More accurate example, is it OK to kill a guy with a life-threatening disease to cure a town of a life-threatening disease that doctors are working on a cure for as we speak?

Because that's what we're dealing with.

No, that's not a more accurate example at all. You've completely missed the point, and I honestly don't know how to explain it to you.

I mean, it literally is.

Ok, I may have missed that part. Remeind me again when we became gods?

It's not irrelevant. No matter what you decide here, a sacrifice is being made. So it's not irrelevant, who is sacrificed is literally up to us.

You want to put not just 1 person, not just 7 people, not just the town of Salvage Keep and surrounding areas, but the whole world that it's situated on in peril -- that is to say, demon-claimed souls -- over executing the 1 person who does not provide value, wants to hurt others, and chose to give up his soul. Not risk his soul. He didn't know we were showing up. He knowingly damned himself in order to do more harm.
We are here to protect the Pokemon of Salvage Keep from him.

Yes a Sacrifice is being made. We are not only deciding WHO is sacrificed, but WHAT. The temporary lives of a few pokemon, in return for the endless afterlife of 7 others.
Regardless of of Orin deserves it or not, once we start down the Kill all the Stalkers road, we have to follow through to the end. That means damning 6 others, who potentially don't deserve it. It's not just about Orin.

But fine. If this is how you want it, we'll do it like this:

No more playing around. No more needlessly talking to Pokemon, no more healing at night (we have berries), no more restraining Orin (someone else will kill in his stead), no more scavenging or making cages (I was wrong, it'll just waste turns), no more investigating Pokemon (we know who the Stalkers are, we just can't do anything about it.)

No hanging out with Vex or learning about cool or fun subplots. If we're here to protect the town and the world, including the unrepentant serial killers, then we start focusing our attention on Searching and solving puzzles. To protect and save as many Pokemon as we can.

Now it's 100% a game standpoint. No more fun stuff -- only urgently piecing together the Sin Purge Ritual until it's done, lest Salvage Keep fall into the claws of the Stalkers, and all their souls be claimed.

Did you even read what I said in the part you quoted?
I don't know how to respond to this.

[Lychee]

Perhaps.
Now all that's left is to urge Morzone to actually play to the strengths he chose so we actually can build a cage.

edit:
ok and actually
Do we know what happens to the soul of a pokemon killed by stalkers? Is it not claimed by them as well?


and like, it's not "oh he might lose his hand later in life." He might lose his hand very very soon. He doesn't use his hand. But if he used his hand, he'd use it for beating those children I'm trying to give candy to.
IDK, flabebe.

AND, it's a choice that Orin made for himself. If we weren't there, based on his own choices, he'd kill a bunch of pokemon as Epsilon, THE WORLD WOULD BE CLAIMED BY STALKERS, and then his damned soul would be taken. By his own choice. Even if it was made in a moment of weakness or a fit of rage. Why is he worth protecting from himself over protecting others from himself?

From a game standpoint, there's no reason keep him alive.
From a game standpoint, there's all the more reason to assassinate him. As the player count dwindles our actions are drastically cut in number, making the Ritual less and less likely to be found and completed.
@Lychee, maybe you can tell me the number of preventable deaths that will occur before we are forced to assassinate Orin anyway. Obviously, the upper limit is 25.

:p
I get pretty caught up in it, I guess.

Well, yeah. I guess that's why I'm not too worried about his pokemon spirit- he chose this. He wanted to kill. He STILL wants to kill, even when his stalker isnt in control. He's blended with the evil, it's different to the other stalkers, he told us that himself. If theres a judgement call about souls, his is getting sucked into the abyss along with the stalker that's melted like goo into his very essence.
I mean...
Don't you ever wonder what happened to the OTHER founders of Salvage Keep?



From a numbers standpoint! Oooh! My fav thing to do!
Ok so, we have two forgers, and we can count on nearly 10 players to take an action or follow directions. If we all put the restrain plan into action, everyone scavenging for materials (knowing that those without the bonus will be less successful) buying materials, and possibly someone else learning forge, it would likely still take us 2 day and 2 night cycles to get somewhere around 3-6 cages?
I mean, if we really really focus on that on the next day cycle, we could potentially have 3 cages for restraining by night time... but then who do we restrain?
It could take a lot of turns to find out, but once we had 7 cages I guess we could figure it out in the day, then systematically jail the whole town like a giant game of mastermind or something lol
Regardless, even if we're smart and coordinated and lucky, at least 4 more innocent pokemon would die.
I guess if we assassinate orin, it might not change that! So that leads us back to completing the ritual asap instead. That's an unknown goal atm coz we dont know how many steps there are...