WAR SEASON II: Discussion

[Fawkes.]

lets be honest, who wouldn't want to join team trainer with that banging first post?

[Lord Celebi]

@Felly, I certainly get that I don't need to be on the same team as the people I like in order to do fun WAR things with them. This is also my 15th or so WAR, so I've had a lot of time to develop that wisdom. Not everyone is that patient or understanding. People generally treat their team as their secret club. Historically, people who have been forced into a team other than the one they wanted (through a draft or other means) usually didn't participate or really have any fun and have cited either a lack of friends on their team or a lack of caring about the team itself as a reason.

[bronislav84]

Which is interesting because the times rusty and I weren't on the same team we still had a lot of fun butting heads. When I wasn't disconnected of course. I had a lot more fun playing on the same team though. Was my first try at evil, and honestly, I liked it. Not as a longterm thing, but still.

[Ganyu]

How many of you have been personally victimized by large teams?

[bronislav84]

Drafts take away choice from people. I was in a draft one war when it was tried, and let me tell you, even when people had put their first, second, and third preferences those teams were often full or others had more priority. I was lucky to get on the team I wanted, but drafts almost always take away choice.

Unfortunately I lost my internet access that year and couldn't help my team for most of the event, and I feel like my spot was wasted.

A celling system almost works, but as has been said people just wait for their favorite to open up or don't join at all. There's ways to have every good intention muck up.

[Siless]

I wasn't even planning on arguing for a change in the WAR system. I only posted when I saw people attacking those with concerns for "attacking the larger teams", "causing drama", and "ruin[ing] this for new members", and made what started off as an attempt to explain one side to the other and ended up being a statement of frustration about what amounts to being told to sit down and shut up because none of what you say matters. What I see is a hostile community aided by those in power disregarding any actual complaints and taking them as attacks, and frankly it's killing any enthusiasm I have to try to hang around.

For some of us, this is our first attempt to leave our little sub-community and try to get along. We say "Oh, we have a small problem with this thing and would perhaps like to discuss making it better at some point," and the first response is "Stop attacking us". This is the first thing outside of the sub-community we see on this forums, and frankly it's discouraging to say the least. I would have been fine (and was expecting) a "We can't do this this year", not a "Your concerns are nothing and you don't deserve to say anything", and frankly this was the worst experience to come into Crossroads with, and I wouldn't be surprised if much of us, me included, didn't stay here much longer.

[HKim]

I want to go ahead and apologize to everyone for the lack of communication and any lack of understanding we may have caused. It's not our intention to hurt or ignore others and I apologize for any of the issues. We definitely care about what everyone has to say and we're sorry if we came out sounding like we didn't. We're also sorry for any attacks that may have occurred. I think I speak for everyone when I say that our goal is to sponsor a fun event. We're currently failing on that front, but I believe we can do better.

I also want to go ahead and apologize to members who are feeling pressured because of the drama of all of this. I believe the drama is partially our fault and I'm sorry for making you feel uncomfortable. We didn't handle this as well as we could and I'm sorry for the trouble we've caused.

The issue is difficult to find a solution for, of course. If there was an easy one that we could all agree on, I'm sure we would have come to it by now. As it is, I think there is no one perfect answer. I am glad that we're discussing it and communicating. The War Leaders have spent a lot of time trying to figure it out and they're no closer to a solution than we are. As Lord Celebi (rust) said, they definitely want to figure out what to do and are happy to discuss it with everyone.

Again, I want to apologize on behalf of the PXR Staff for any insults or slights. As owner of the site, this is ultimately my fault and responsibility and I'm sorry for any trouble we have caused you. Thank you very much for your patience and thank you for your understanding. I hope you guys can forgive us for our errors.

[Ash K.]

However the same thing be said for URPG Teams. Each time you guys assemble a team no matter what no other team even comes close to earning those points.

I have to respectfully disagree with this point. Looking at the breakdown from last year, here's all points earned for URPG (other than judging):

Awesome: 12
Yoga Bears: 5
Trainer: 4
Pilates: 4

URPG-centric teams are in bold.

[PV]

Meanwhile at the JMC, we're planning Alligator Aerial Assaults.

[Felly]

@Felly, I certainly get that I don't need to be on the same team as the people I like in order to do fun WAR things with them. This is also my 15th or so WAR, so I've had a lot of time to develop that wisdom. Not everyone is that patient or understanding. People generally treat their team as their secret club. Historically, people who have been forced into a team other than the one they wanted (through a draft or other means) usually didn't participate or really have any fun and have cited either a lack of friends on their team or a lack of caring about the team itself as a reason.

I can kind of understand this, but I'm mostly not wrapping my head around this. No offense to you or anyone, but I feel like that's a really stupid reason to have so much emphasis on having your friends on your team. I get people really want to play with their friends, but aren't they also playing with their friends by not being on the same team as people too? Can't you make new friends by not playing on the same team as your old ones? I get friendship is important, but you should be able to make new friends too, not create small cliques and play with the same people over and over again.

It is and has ALWAYS been a popularity contest.

Okay, this. This right here makes me feel really excluded. I'm going to be upfront and say that I'm not that active on PXR. I'll come here once every few months and binge post, but other than that, the extent of my PXR activity is the URPG and WAR, and occasionally I'll say something in the PXR Skype chats I'm in. If there's one thing I really loathe about anything, it's popularity contests. To say that WAR is a popularity contest makes me not want to participate because now I feel as if I'm going to be excluded. I'm not exactly well known on here except by the URPG members, so I wouldn't easily be recruited by any of the other teams that are out there. I don't really have any friends on PXR because I'm not really here. My only source of being asked to join a team would be URPG members because they're the only ones that really know my skills and really know me. Maybe if I'm lucky, a non-URPG member will contact me and say "hey, join my team!!!" but I wouldn't hold out for it unless I posted in the Free Agent thread. I told myself that if Yoga Bears didn't come back for this year's WAR, I was going to look at my options closer to the start of the event and pick a team then; I had a few teams I was set on not choosing for my own reasons, which I won't list here so as not to offend anyone or upset anyone, but I was going to join a team and probably one with few URPG people. In URPG, we can't all be lumped onto one team or it doesn't work with our system.

Carrying on from that fact, if you throw all of the graphic artists on Team Trainer and all of the writers onto Team Magma, then only Team Trainer can score those points for graphic art and only Team Magma can score points for writing. This doesn't seem to be the case, but the scenario fits here because when you have a large concentration of a specific skill on a team, say a bunch of graphic artists or a bunch of writers, you're excluding other teams from earning those points.

WAR should not be a popularity contest. The fact that it is and has been turns me off completely and makes me feel extremely excluded, and it just sounds disgusting. Just because I'm not in the "in crowd" doesn't mean I should be excluded. I'm not in grade school anymore, I shouldn't have to be trying to fit in on a Pokemon forum and the fact that WAR is and has been a popularity contest makes it seem like I have to fit in or I'm just crap out of luck. This shouldn't be about recruitment or who can get the most people on a team and how many people you can get or how popular you are on a Pokemon forum, it should be about having fun and being able to play with your friends while also having some sort of balance to the system so that every team and every member has a fair shot at earning points and leading their team to victory.