WAR SEASON II: Discussion

[Ash K.]

I hear what you're saying. But there are also people saying that the numbers imbalance is discouraging them from participating. Several members of those three teams I've spoken to have mentioned that they are losing all motivation to participate in events outside of URPG (which has its own prizes and double pay on all battles, as well as a generally more balanced system for unbalanced numbers). Please don't keep talking about how alternatives are discouraging participation, this is discouraging participation because people feel like they have to overextend themselves due to lack of other people to do certain things, otherwise their team is forfeiting those sections without even trying.

Now assume that we all went out recruiting. Assume we call a maximum difference of 5 people acceptable. That requires an additional 44 people. And that's still a five person disadvantage, assuming no one else joins Trainer. Assume we want complete equality. That requires an additional 29, for a total of 73 people. That's way too much to recruit even if we all spent the next three weeks trying.

[bronislav84]

Ash, Ultra won't win the War. You have to overextend yourself anyway with such a small team just to earn more points. Rest of what you say is valid.

We should have had member soft caps from the beginning, raising as people joined.

[swiftgallade46]

me reading this thread:

[Monbrey]

Ash, Ultra won't win the War. You have to overextend yourself anyway with such a small team just to earn more points. Rest of what you say is valid.

We should have had member soft caps from the beginning, raising as people joined.

That's exactly what Ash is saying. At no point did he suggest one section would win the war.

He comes from URPG (as do I), and therefore that's going to be his primary focus. Everyone in every team regardless of size is going to have a section they are best at, and will compete in the most.

When you have a team of 20, you can be pretty comfortable knowing that other members of your team will be competing in the other sections earning points. People are discouraged from joining smaller teams because they feel like they'll be forced into competing in sections which are less-favourable to their skillset just to try and keep their team competitive, and since it's less favourable to their skillset, it's even harder to ACTUALLY be competitive in those sections.

I might dabble in some other sections, I might not. I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to compete at the top level of artworks and RP though, and wouldn't be able to make a significant contribution to my team by doing so.

[Felly]

Today I learned URPG is a team.

[Neo Emolga]

I kind of woke up this morning and realized what I'm doing wrong with this whole WAR thing. And I'm especially embarrassed because I'm a marketing major and should know this stuff already.

Recruitment is just as much of a challenge and a necessity as participation when you've got a WAR team. If you want to cover all bases in the WAR and have the sections covered, you've got to recruit. Yes, if you're like me and you're leading a team this year, I'll say it again and louder this time, you've got to recruit! Serebii's infractions be damned, I shouldn't have let that stop me even if it meant a temp ban (though I plan on recruiting through Steam now, although the very idea of getting banned on Serebii is actually kind of amusing to me now). And that goes for any team of any size. Honestly, if I said anything that could be interpreted as being hurtful against Team Trainer (I don't think I did, but I dunno, I can't read their minds), I take it back. Because they don't deserve it from me and they don't deserve it from anybody. They ended up with a 20 man team because they did something right. They created a team that's user friendly, appeals to just about every audience, and they knew how to market it. So if you're not happy with the situation, learn from their example and leverage it in your own way. Face the music, recruiting is a part of the WAR as much as participation and effort.

What did Team Trainer do right? They recruited people, and that shouldn't count against them. They didn't force or demand people to join the team and jump on in, and I think that's where a lot of the smaller teams are missing the point. They focused on presentation, they focused on promotion (who in their right mind couldn't like their banners?), and found the right place and right time to do it. If you're in a small team and you want more people, get out there and recruit people. Either that, or change your team around so it does attract more people. Nobody owes your team members, you have to get them yourself or you have to work with what you have to the best of your ability. So find your niche. Reach out to your target market of member bases. Team Trainer didn't wave a magic wand and just magically create people to join the team. Whatever they did, you have to do too, or you have to work around it.

So really, that's all I'm going to say. So let's stop this silly nonsense before I start shooting people with silly string and cramming cupcakes in their nose. You know what you gotta do now. And I hate wasting perfectly good cupcakes.

[Monbrey]

3. Taking shots at people or making them feel bad about joining a team that is large is NOT acceptable. As an admin on the this forum I can tell you right now that if you people causing drama ruin this for new members or people who are just doing this to have fun I will bring the full power of my position down on you like the wrath of Thors Hammer.

However until people start to step forward and help the WAR leaders fix things they feel need to be adjusted we will keep running off this system

>people stepped forward to raise an issue with the WAR leaders about things they feel need to be adjusted
>you threaten admin action because it causes drama and will "ruin this for new members"

Who has taken shots at people for joining a specific team? All I've seen here is people who are a little critical of teams who already have a huge member advantage and continue recruiting even further.

Nobody is trying to cause drama - they're trying to raise something they see as an issue and are being shut down.

I 100% understand that leaders want the benefit for their team, but since this is meant to be a fun enjoyable experience for all as everyone keeps pointing out, there should be some aspect of what's best for WAR as a whole.

[Aberforth]

I do understand how everyone is feeling toward the number of members some teams have. After all, I purposely joined a team that had fewer members instead of a larger team where I would have probably felt more confortable.

However, some people seem not to understand the whole point of this event. I may be new around here, but, as I understand it, WAR is supposed to encourage community growth and forum activity. It is a fun event for everyone to gather as teams and compete in friendly activities. Such events bring the best out of everybody. It is not only about winning.

For instance, the Ancient Olympic Games were closely linked to the religious festivals of the cult of Zeus, but were not an integral part of a rite. Indeed, they had a secular character and aimed to show the physical qualities and evolution of the performances accomplished by young people, as well as encouraging good relations between the cities of Greece.

Sure, winning is fun and I will bloody do anything I can to make sure my team triumphs, but seing everyone collaborate is truly great. I had never seen that on another forum before. It is great to see some teams coming up with banners and userbars to convince more members to join them. It is really creative. It feels like pre-war (IRL) propaganda.

And while it would have been a good idea to have a relative maximum of members in a team from the beginning, I think it would be unfair to ask some people to leave their team and too confusing to see people going around switching teams. Furthermore, changing the rules a mere three weeks before the end of the registration period would be a mess. I see only to possible options: either we leave things as the are and keep these recommendations for next year or we start the registration process with a relative maximum of members in a team over from the beginning and push back the beginning of the events.

[Siless]

Y'know guys, completely ignoring the point is rather insulting. Us on the smaller teams feel we're completely outclassed just by sheer numbers, that we'll barely be able to actually participate in a 'competition' that amounts to a grandmaster stomping a tournament of chess newbs, much less something resembling actual fairness. Participation is hard when you feel there's no point. I joined mostly to (hopefully work past anxiety) and try to have a fun roleplay while working with one of my friends, and yet the odds are stacked against us for making any meaningful contributions elsewhere by both running ourselves thin and being up against 10x the submissions.

PXR has 200 active members, according to the forum statistics. I'd guess about 1/3 has interest in WAR, maybe 2/5? That's a range of 66-80 people, of which 70 have attempted to join WAR by joining a team or team-in-making, and of which nearly 50 are on three teams. That leaves a miniscule amount of people that'd be interested in joining any other teams. We aren't (and haven't been) faulting teams for having large amounts of members, what we've been saying is that when other teams not only have more submissions but don't have to have their members spread themselves thin to maintain any semblance of a for-fun competition (which is what this is), us smaller teams don't really see much of a point to participating in most areas.

To be honest? I wouldn't have even made this post if it weren't for the attitude of those that are bringing these concerns up. They're legitimate concerns, and honestly I expected nothing to really happen this WAR about them, perhaps in the next or after. But people in here are claiming those with concerns are attacking larger teams and trying to make them feel bad? Not only are you misrepresenting those speaking out, you're silencing them out of what appears to be malice, and completely ignoring the actual concerns, and to say this makes me worried about the state of WAR leadership is an understatement.

[Lord Celebi]

I can hear everybody's complaints from the smaller teams. You feel generally outclassed by Team Trainer. I get that, you want a decent competition and a shot at actually winning. Please understand my problem:

• People generally want to be on WAR Teams with their friends.
• People want to be on WAR teams that they think are cool (i.e. usually not joke teams)
• Nobody likes to be told what to do.
• If we put a cap on a team, people will just wait for the cap to be raised. People will not easily settle for their second choice.

Given this framework: what should we do about this problem? We have very firmly established what the problem is, let's refocus our conversation to solutions that do not compromise any of the above points.