The Last Poster Wins! [v21]

[Noblejanobii]

Morzonbe's list for edgy characters:

1: You weren't born normally. You were artificially made, so no one understands or relates to you properly

By this standard you're calling Porygon edgy. Which, beyond actually having edges, it is not.

2: You give off an aura of either being rejected by the whole world or are reserved from others in a "no one understand me, you don't know my life or what I've gone through" sort of way.

Um… subjective much? Type: Null doesn't do this hardly at all. You only ever interact with Type: Null through battle. Gladion certainly does this but don't fault the Pokémon for the qualities of the Trainer.

3: Your life is a sob-story. There is no substance or other redeeming qualities to you. Your purpose is to make people feel sorry for you and your tragic life while despising the people who hurt such an innocent pokemon.

While Type: Null's backstory is tragic, it's redeeming quality is that it's appearance is really cool and it's a kick *** in battle. You can't even make an argument against Gladion on this either since he acts as a hero in rebelling against his mother to save his sister. In addition, this kind of makes Mimikyu edgy.

4: Your design relates directly to your very sad creation/life story or is based specifically to contain a special OP ability only you have, because without it you would be even more rejected and lonely than you already are.

Technically Type: Null has no OP abilities, Silvally does but not Type: Null. Other than having some pretty good stats and moves there's not much unique about it beyond its appearance. I will give you this though since this is partially true but this also increases the edginess of other pokemon too.

5: You either have no friends or have a single friend who is edgy in their own way (though not necessarily as bad as you) No one else understands you, and more importantly you don't trust them to understand you.

I'll give you this one based on what limited interactions we as the player have had with Type: Null and Gladion. The edginess meter is slowly filling for Mimikyu.

6:You present yourself as something above others (in this case legendary-like) by being based off of an actual legendary. The only thing you get is an OP power similar to the legendary, only that power is a reason for your alienation more than it helps you, because it makes you more special and unique and impossible to understand.

Type: Null doesn't "present itself" as you say. If this were a PMD game I'd give it to you but like I said we only ever see this Pokémon in battle so it can't really present itself. Secondly, Type: Null can't exactly help the whole alienation thing if it was created in a lab on an island and never allowed to interact with the outside world. So I feel like that can't be really held against it. And you know who else is edgy by this standard? Munna and the Gigalith from GtI!

7: You're OP, or give off a vibe of being OP.

Granted, Type: Null does have the highest BST of Pokémon able to evolve, given it doesn't have access to Silvally's abilities, it isn't actually that OP. And Silvally doesn't have a much highest BST so they're not that OP. Slaking has a higher BST than Silvally.

8: You evolve from friendship. This one works less directly and more a a reference to the fact that friendship, love, and connections is what can save you from depression often caused through adolescence. (As in, you're depressed and edgy right now you need friendship to get out of it)

So Pichu, Togepi, Igglybuff, Riolu, Eevee, Cleffa, Chansey, and all other friendship evolutions as also edgy?

9: Your theme is based off of an idea championed by edgy teenagers who want to be special, OP, and "unique" in a "no one understands me" sort of way without doing any work: You are a typeless pokemon. You have no weaknesses and are extremely strong because of it. You have no limitations on usable moves so you have a type advantage over everybody. While in reality you may be an actual type, your design suggests to the fan-fiction loving fanbase that you don't.

No, Type: Null is based on a Chimera, as I already said. Also it does have a weakness, literally it's a normal type so it's weak to fighting. And Silvally is weak to whatever weaknesses the type it takes on has.

10: Just to add a few more qualities that set you apart from all those normal people, you're rare and can't breed, so you don't feel love like most do.

so nidoqueen, all baby pokémon, and legendaries are edgy too? Man I never realized how edgy pichu is.

[Arrow-Jolteon]

@Arrow-Jolteon

Well for Being OP that's because there are lots of ways to be OP. You can be OP but not edgy, but being particular types of OP, or having particular reasons that make you OP, multiply how edgy the situation is. For instance, Superman is OP, but few people really mind because he uses it for righteous causes.

Similarly, "edgy" and unique" often go together. what's important is not that you are unique, but that you use your uniqueness as a reason to ostracize yourself from the rest of society. Having multiple reasons to portray your "uniqueness" works to amplify the effect. Going back to superman, his backstory has a lot of sob-story aspects (family dies, is from a lost race, is from another planet, etc.) but because it also implements factors that give superman realistic characteristics of personality, effectively balancing out.

Dude, not for nothing, but to me it looks like you're just looking for excuses to hate Type: Null, when just saying "I just don't like its design/concept" would be enough. Of course Type: Null is not going to have a super-layered character or personality traits: literally the only times it and pretty much any other Pokemon are seen is during battle, so how exactly is it supposed to balance out its supposed "sob story" with a layered personality?

[Chakramaster]

XY was waaaaay too easy. I nuzlocked both and only had one death, via a critical hit. Never had any close calls. SuMo has kicked my butt to the moon and back on multiple occasions.

But I'd rather not continue to argue since it seems you completely despise SuMo and I can't change that no matter how much I try.

That's exactly why before I stated it was my opinion. Because I wasn't stating anything factual. Just "my opinion" which is exactly what any of us can only offer. Something one of us may like, others may not. Just because you like it or something else, that doesn't mean everyone else does.

and no. Just because there's things I don't like in it doesn't mean I "despise." It just means they changed things to a point me (and quite frankly many others) just don't like, BUT there's also those that really like it. Nothing against them either. Just don't take that the wrong way. Others have their own likes ad dislikes.

[Noblejanobii]

That's exactly why before I stated it was my opinion. Because I wasn't stating anything factual. Just "my opinion" which is exactly what any of us can only offer. Something one of us may like, others may not. Just because you like it or something else, that doesn't mean everyone else does.

and no. Just because there's things I don't like in it doesn't mean I "despise." It just means they changed things to a point me (and quite frankly many others) just don't like, BUT there's also those that really like it. Nothing against them either. Just don't take that the wrong way. Others have their own likes ad dislikes.

And I've only been offering my opinion and experiences in return.

Excuse me for thinking you despise the game when the only thing youve said you liked were the music and the story. That was quite small compared to everything you said you disliked so it's easy to take that as a despise. And given I haven't heard much complaint I'm going to say agree to disagree on most people hating SuMo until you've got statistics to back it up.

[Neo Emolga]

SuMo was ok, but I fell out of it pretty early on. Funny thing is, instead I got back into playing PSMD and have been way more into that lately.

Trials were a nice attempt to be different from gyms, but in the end I preferred just having gyms more. I didn't really bother with the whole plaza thing either. I guess at the end of the day, I find it way more fun to be the Pokémon rather than the trainer.

[Arrow-Jolteon]

I think we all prefer to be the Pokemon. I mean, look at how many people have Pokemon OCs versus trainer OCs. Those that have trainer OCs tend to also have Pokemon OCs, but not viceversa. After all, the Pokemon is the badass creature doing all the real fighting.

[Noblejanobii]

I think there's also the fact that pokemon are so much more diverse than trainers. There's only so much you can do with a trainer, but at the end of the day, they all have their limits as to what they can look like. Pokemon though, there's 800 of them now, all with unique designs and traits, and they can be customized so much more than trainers ever can!

[Neo Emolga]

I think we all prefer to be the Pokemon. I mean, look at how many people have Pokemon OCs versus trainer OCs. Those that have trainer OCs tend to also have Pokemon OCs, but not viceversa. After all, the Pokemon is the badass creature doing all the real fighting.

Hate to say it, but I stopped playing SuMo right after the second trial. :x Yes, THAT early. Even worse, I'll admit I dropped out of XY around the same time! I just felt like it wasn't really changing and even trying to Nuzlocke the game wasn't making it any more interesting. I didn't really care about the characters either, and at first, I thought the Hawaii-like setting was neat, but after a while, it didn't really keep me going or avid to explore more of the islands. Every area kind of felt the same. I was really beginning to feel like I was growing out of playing Pokémon games...

I realized that to me, storyline is SUPER CRITICAL. The regular Pokémon games just don't have much of a storyline going on, and the little that they have progresses extremely slowly and only does every once in a while. Meanwhile, PMD games have very fascinating characters, storylines, the Pokémon have sooooo much more personality than their main game counterparts, and even the little things like music and the way PMD games can make you laugh, smile, and even pull on your emotional heartstrings make them VASTLY superior. I realized the first time I dropped out of PSMD, I was kind of at a low point in the storyline where not much was happening. I decided I was pretty much done with SuMo and decided to give PSMD another try. And bang, I quickly get back into it and the storyline takes me into Lively Town which gets me immediately thinking "Yes, they finally have a PMD game with multiple Pokémon towns!" And boom, the part where you and your partner join the Expedition Society is nice, filled with humor, and keeps the game interesting once again. I'm glad I decided to fire this back up rather than just force myself to play SuMo when I really wasn't getting that into it.

Thing is, with the regular Pokémon games, I already know what to expect at the end. A slow and agonizing Victory Road, an Elite Four drudgery with incessant Full Restore abuse, a rough Champion battle with even more Full Restore abuse, and the end. There is no climatic battle where everything hangs in the balance and you're the hero that separates total disaster from saving the world. But PMD games on the other hand... you don't know WHAT to expect and it's totally the opposite! And the endings are so much more meaningful and genuinely feel like a full fledged storyline experience!

TL:DR - Forget the main Pokémon games, I want more PMD.

[Noblejanobii]

After the second trial? Wow you missed out. After... I think it's the sixth trial the story really picks up. They pull an Umbrella Corp on the Aether Foundation. I think one of the main flaws with the main series games is pacing. Unlike PMD, they don't thread the storyline in very well. They did better with SuMo by making it not only a right of passage but also by completing all the trials and such you had a shot at helping found the League, which was pretty cool. But I feel like if they could weave it together better like with the PMD games where every dungeon crawl had some sort of purpose, it would make the games a lot better. I'll be candid here when saying the reason I always have the "no grinding" rule on my nuzlocke challenges isn't because I want to make it more difficult, it's because I don't want to grind. It's boring and tedious, whereas with PMD you're out there saving a pokemon, returning a valuable item to them, catching an outlaw. And the main series games could do this too if they implemented side quests. Like, we have them but not near the amount necessary and they don't provide much replay ability.

[Morzone]

Spoiler:

By this standard you're calling Porygon edgy. Which, beyond actually having edges, it is not.

Porygon's artificial creation isn't the start of a rejected sob-story. Having one edgy factor alone doesn't make a pokemon edgy, but compiling various edgy factors, both major and minor, multiplies the effect.

Um… subjective much? Type: Null doesn't do this hardly at all. You only ever interact with Type: Null through battle. Gladion certainly does this but don't fault the Pokémon for the qualities of the Trainer.

The games make clear use of the "A pet is like its owner" trope with Type:Null and Gladion. They are portrayed to be very similar throughout the game, even if most of it is through gladion's description of his pokemon. Why else would someone like gladion bond so closely with it? Because their shared experiences give them a similar outlook on life.

While Type: Null's backstory is tragic, it's redeeming quality is that it's appearance is really cool and it's a kick *** in battle. You can't even make an argument against Gladion on this either since he acts as a hero in rebelling against his mother to save his sister. In addition, this kind of makes Mimikyu edgy.

I'll... just agree to disagree with you on the appearance. You may see a chimera, but I see a failed attempt to make an artificial arceus using frankenstein methods. And from my other points being "Kick ***" in battle isn't a redeeming trait, it's just another reason for you to hate Aether foundation for rejecting it. (which is Type:null's main purpose in the game) And if this doesn't apply to Gladion, why does his outlook on life look like This? He may be heroic when it counts, but that doesn't stop him from being an edgy teenager the rest of the time.

Technically Type: Null has no OP abilities, Silvally does but not Type: Null. Other than having some pretty good stats and moves there's not much unique about it beyond its appearance. I will give you this though since this is partially true but this also increases the edginess of other pokemon too.

Err, to be honest I sort of lumped Type:null and Silvally together, as Type:null's original design was to have silvally's powers without evolving. The lore on Type:null claims the helmet's purpose is to hold back the rampant power inside of Type:null, which would explode out of control without it. (a common trope for edgy characters)

I'll give you this one based on what limited interactions we as the player have had with Type: Null and Gladion. The edginess meter is slowly filling for Mimikyu.

I can't really comment on Mimikyu since I don't know its story or lore.

Type: Null doesn't "present itself" as you say. If this were a PMD game I'd give it to you but like I said we only ever see this Pokémon in battle so it can't really present itself. Secondly, Type: Null can't exactly help the whole alienation thing if it was created in a lab on an island and never allowed to interact with the outside world. So I feel like that can't be really held against it. And you know who else is edgy by this standard? Munna and the Gigalith from GtI!

I worded this one somewhat badly. You are right that Type:null's limited interaction keeps it from presenting itself like this, but I was referring more to how Type:Null was hyped up before the games' release as the "mewtwo" for arceus. (as in an attempted clone/recreation) A failed copy of a greater power is a common trope among edgy designs and characters.

Granted, Type: Null does have the highest BST of Pokémon able to evolve, given it doesn't have access to Silvally's abilities, it isn't actually that OP. And Silvally doesn't have a much highest BST so they're not that OP. Slaking has a higher BST than Silvally.

To quote you from earlier: One of his redeeming qualities is that Type:null is "Kick ***" in battle. But to be fair this is one of those things that's only cringy if their strength is based off of cringy lore. (like being a failed copy of arceus) Being really strong alone doesn't make people cringy.

So Pichu, Togepi, Igglybuff, Riolu, Eevee, Cleffa, Chansey, and all other friendship evolutions as also edgy?

This one is kind of a tangent, I will admit. I just interpreted it as "You're being saved by the amazing power of friendship!" *cue really cheesy speech* None of the other pokemon were being "saved" by friendship, but as this is kind of a tangent an arguement can be made that neither is Type:null

No, Type: Null is based on a Chimera, as I already said. Also it does have a weakness, literally it's a normal type so it's weak to fighting. And Silvally is weak to whatever weaknesses the type it takes on has.

Yes, I know Type:null does actually have a type. But does the fan-fiction writing fanbase care? No. The concept of a typless pokemon, especially a typless pokemon hyped up to be legendary-like, is by far one of the most cringiest and edgiest concepts relating to pokemon. What do you think the name "Type: Null" suggests? Even before Type:null was introduced, people jumped on the notion of arceus' hacked "enigma form" and the "enigma plate" that had no actual type. By adding a pokemon who's body shape gives no clear indication of type combined with a name that literally says the pokemon doesn't have a type, it's only opened up a window for people to do what they want with Type:null as a typeless pokemon, rather than what it actually is.

so nidoqueen, all baby pokémon, and legendaries are edgy too? Man I never realized how edgy pichu is.

Like the artificial birth, this is more of an add-on than a major edgy factor. Having this alone doesn't make anyone edgy.

You know what? Screw it. It doesn't matter. You like Type:null and I don't. The universe isn't going to end because of it. Arguing over it is only going to make me angry and edgy myself over something completely pointless. Read it if you want, but I don't care anymore. also if you can't tell I'm tired and grumpy. Sorry about that.