Daily Literature Quotes

[Noblejanobii]

When you understand that every behaviour is inherently selfish, you begin to realise that the best way to survive in this world is to be mutualistic.

I was raised to serve others so most of the times I rarely do anything that aids me in any way. It's not the best system but it makes people happy, which makes me happy. But being self indulgent isn't all bad. It's a lot less stressful actually.

[Tenacity]

I was raised to serve others so most of the times I rarely do anything that aids me in any way. It's not the best system but it makes people happy, which makes me happy. But being self indulgent isn't all bad. It's a lot less stressful actually.

It's a psychological/philosophical argument, but I do believe there is no such thing as an unselfish behaviour (we just like to think there are!).

Selfishness isn't always correlated with immorality. Understanding that was the first step to learning that taking care of myself is very important (especially when you're the type of person to ruin your own wellbeing for somebody else's - no one is that important). You just need to set standards for which selfish behaviours are okay.

[Noblejanobii]

It's a psychological/philosophical argument, but I do believe there is no such thing as an unselfish behaviour (we just like to think there are!).

Selfishness isn't always correlated with immorality. Understanding that was the first step to learning that taking care of myself is very important (especially when you're the type of person to ruin your own wellbeing for somebody else's - no one is that important). You just need to set standards for which selfish behaviours are okay.

Given that, by my beliefs and morality, selfishness is inherently wrong, I try not be selfish if at all. See, I view selflessness as doing something for someone else when there is no possible gain or even there is a possible loss for you involved. It's sacrificing yourself for someone else when there's nothing for you to receive or gain from the situation at hand. The most I gain from what I do is a thanks and a little respect, but I still consider that a selfless action since I can't use either of those to my own advantage.

But to each their own.

[Tenacity]

Given that, by my beliefs and morality, selfishness is inherently wrong, I try not be selfish if at all. See, I view selflessness as doing something for someone else when there is no possible gain or even there is a possible loss for you involved. It's sacrificing yourself for someone else when there's nothing for you to receive or gain from the situation at hand. The most I gain from what I do is a thanks and a little respect, but I still consider that a selfless action since I can't use either of those to my own advantage.

But to each their own.

There is a possible gain though - the approval of the other person. An ally is a very real advantage. We're very social creatures, it's where our notion of morality evolved from to begin with.

Question (and this is a moral dilemma I was involved in and what ultimately led me to my current beliefs) - if somebody close to you had a mental illness / belief that meant every time you did something that acknowledged the existence of people you didn't know or care about, they came down with severe anxiety, would you ignore other people for them?

[Noblejanobii]

There is a possible gain though - the approval of the other person. An ally is a very real advantage. We're very social creatures, it's where our notion of morality evolved from to begin with.

Question (and this is a moral dilemma I was involved in and what ultimately led me to my current beliefs) - if somebody close to you had a mental illness / belief that meant every time you did something that acknowledged the existence of people you didn't know or care about, they came down with severe anxiety, would you ignore other people for them?

Tell that to all the people I give money to and then they turn around and spread rumors about me behind my back. I don't care if anyone approves of me. Learned that lesson in middle school. I am who I am and I don't care what you think of me. I am kind because it's what I believe is right and I don't think I deserve any reward for doing what's right. They don't become my allies the majority of the time, I don't gain their approval, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm just a walking ATM to most people but because I know what their home lives are like, I figure, if someone has to show them kindness since their parents obviously don't. That's not selfish. Show me what advantage wasting my time and money for people who give literally zero crap if I get hit by a bus in the next five minutes gives me? Because I've been doing it for four years and I have yet to see any advantages. It's just called being nice.

Just so I'm clear on the terms before I answer, like if I say donated to a fund that provides food to people on Africa? That sort of acknowledgement or something else?

And before you think to discuss this further, please understand two things:
1) this isn't the proper place to even have this discussion. If it relates to the quote I'll let it slide but this doesn't really relate.
2) Please understand that it is futile to try and convince me otherwise. My beliefs shall stand as they are and it's useless to think you can change how I think. I'm stubborn as a mule.

[Tenacity]

Tell that to all the people I give money to and then they turn around and spread rumors about me behind my back. I don't care if anyone approves of me. Learned that lesson in middle school. I am who I am and I don't care what you think of me. I am kind because it's what I believe is right and I don't think I deserve any reward for doing what's right. They don't become my allies the majority of the time, I don't gain their approval, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm just a walking ATM to most people but because I know what their home lives are like, I figure, if someone has to show them kindness since their parents obviously don't. That's not selfish. Show me what advantage wasting my time and money for people who give literally zero crap if I get hit by a bus in the next five minutes gives me? Because I've been doing it for four years and I have yet to see any advantages. It's just called being nice.

Just so I'm clear on the terms before I answer, like if I say donated to a fund that provides food to people on Africa? That sort of acknowledgement or something else?

Just because people betray you, it doesn't mean that their allegiance was a potential gain at the time of the good deed. I'm not saying kindness is impossible. I'm just saying that nobody is kind without (potential) gain unless they are manipulated to do so (often by people who use the word 'selfish'). I can even show that giving money to poor people even when they dislike you is selfish - you give money to them because you believe it is right to (you admitted this), but the only reason you do that is because you want to a morally good person. Is that not itself a selfish motive?

You're right, it is called being nice. But you don't have to be selfless to be nice. If I give a compliment because I want someone to like me, rather than because I want to make them feel good, is giving the compliment a bad act? Of course not. The effect of the compliment is ultimately the same regardless of the intention.

Selflessness, if we take it to mean 'an action with no potential net gain for the ourselves but with potential net gain for the other person', is synonymous with self-destructive. If that is the definition of selflessness, there are no selfless acts that are not self-destructive. If you believe all people to be of equal worth (including oneself), you'll agree that selflessness is not noble or logical.

Yes, even that, but I meant even as simple as not saying 'thank you' to a waiter or waitress just because it made your friend anxious, for example.

[Noblejanobii]

Just because people betray you, it doesn't mean that their allegiance was a potential gain at the time of the good deed. I'm not saying kindness is impossible. I'm just saying that nobody is kind without (potential) gain unless they are manipulated to do so (often by people who use the word 'selfish'). I can even show that giving money to poor people even when they dislike you is selfish - you give money to them because you believe it is right to (you admitted this), but the only reason you do that is because you want to a morally good person. Is that not itself a selfish motive?

You're right, it is called being nice. But you don't have to be selfless to be nice. If I give a compliment because I want someone to like me, rather than because I want to make them feel good, is giving the compliment a bad act? Of course not. The effect of the compliment is ultimately the same regardless of the intention.

Yes, even that, but I meant even as simple as not saying 'thank you' to a waiter or waitress just because it made your friend anxious.

There was never any potential advantage to me. I knew flat out what the consequences were going to be but I did it anyway because, guess what? I felt like it. And to answer your question, just because I'm religious does not mean I have any motives behind my kindness. I'm not the most religious person out there and I never think to myself "hey what can I do today that will make me a morally good person?" That's not something I do. If someone asks me for money I give it to them. Simple as that. Why does there have to be any advantage or motive behind it? Being a morally good person has nothing to do with this, or maybe it has everything to do with this because this is inherently a battle between evolution and religion, a circular argument with no true answer. So you can try to prove me wrong all you want but we're at a stalemate that cannot be breached.

That's called deceit. Doing something nice with an ulterior motive that is unclear at the presentation of the original intiation or soon after is keeping something from someone which is wrong. So while the compliment itself might not be mean, the fact that you haven't actually stated outright or at least made the intention clear in the first few exchanges is qualifying as deceit, which is wrong.

Hm… you know, I'll be honest, I'm not sure. Here's why. Firstly, I've never been in the situation so I can't give my proper reaction. Secondly, where I've been raised, it's second nature to say thank you and be polite like that. I believe I would try to be more careful about it around them but seeing as I just automatically respond in that way, it would be very difficult. However, I would not completely shut myself off from humanity even if the person wasn't around since that's not how I think and work. You said it yourself, humans are social creatures. Despite being effectively a slave to my peers, I enjoy being around other people. However, more often than not, I have found that the kindness that I share is hardly returned and my continual expression of it is based from my birth, raising, and past experiences, all factors than cannot be controlled nor used as motivation because, at best, you can claim that I was brainwashed, which, in effect, I was. In which case, if I was brainwashed then I would gain no advantage from any action I have ever done since none of my actions are my own but the decisions that are made others.