pulse shooting in orlando, FL

[starmie]

i figured i would make a thread on this to raise awareness in case folks havent heard already, due to not following the news, not being on tumblr/facebook, living under a rock, etc

last night in an LGBTQ+ nightclub called pulse, in orlando, florida, a mass shooting occurred that was very likely - almost certainly, in my opinion - a homophobic hate crime. this is now officially the most deadly mass shooting in american history, with a body count of over 50 and over 50 injured. the shooter was pronounced dead at the scene after the SWAT team stormed the scene after three hours of a hostage situation within the club. the shooter's father confirmed that he believed the attack was motivated by homophobia, as his son had gotten angry months prior upon seeing two men kissing in miami.

please keep the victims of this monstrous tragedy in your thoughts. if anyone here lives in the orlando area, there is a huge need for blood donations at this time, so please consider heading to your nearest blood bank to help out if youre able. this is a handy list of donation centers that are open today.

this article gives more detailed information on the massacre.

[Noblejanobii]

I saw the articles and alerts when I woke up this morning. They've declared a state of emergency from the sheer amount of people dead and injured in the city from what I understand. Stuff like this is just despicable. I can't believe someone would do something like this, but at the same time it doesn't surprise me. This goes beyond what my own personal beliefs are, way beyond it. In my experience with politics, law, and government, I've picked up a few interesting things that it would behoove the general citizen to know. One thing about the freedoms of the first amendment, they only go as far as another person's rights. It's why you can't practice the Aztec religion in the USA, it involves killing people, which is infringement on their right to life. The same goes here. I've seen people classifying this as an act of speech, and therefore it's protected, but it's not. So to hell with what my personal beliefs are, because those don't apply here. These were living, breathing people. They had families, loved ones, friends, acquaintances, people who had seen them! I'll go through purgatory for each of their souls before I believe for a second that this is acceptable. They impacted people and now the shooter has taken away their ability to do it again. This is so stupid, so freaking stupid. I may not always seem like on I'm the side of the LGBTQ+ community, but even I have eyes, and as blind as I am, even I can see that something like this is wrong.

[starmie]

i feel like it is worth adding, in the light of this horrific event, that it is currently pride month. pride month is both a celebration of LGBTQ+ identities and a reminder of the suffering that we have gone through historically and still go through today. this massacre is one of many. the AIDS epidemic was a government-approved genocide of gay and transgender communities. members of the queer community are faced with systemic and individual violence each and every day. this attack was not an isolated incident; while it may be one of the biggest and most horrific individual instances in recent history, it is part of a larger pattern.

this is our reality.

please remember this, internalize it, if you are not a member of the LGBTQ+ community yourself.

let this be your wake-up call.

[Neo Emolga]

Moving this to Other Discussion since it's a more serious topic.

I really can't understand why someone would ever want to do this. Even if you're anti-gay and homophobic, that doesn't give you the right to be judge and executioner and go do something sick and twisted like this. Even if you believe it's against your religion or whatever, it's still not and never will be a reason to go out and kill people. I indentify as heterosexual and I know the Bible prohibits homosexuality, but you know, it also says not to judge others either and certain not to kill them. No one is forcing you to join them and if you don't agree with their ways, then just leave them be as with any other groups that you don't share beliefs in.

In the meantime, I have a friend who is lesbian and she's such a cool and fun person to hang out with. And honestly, I've seen her kissing another female it doesn't bother me. Some people may not agree with it, but hey, just keep it to yourself and just leave them be. And even then, it's definitely not at all a sane justification to kill people over this.

However, I'm not happy about the whole fact Obama and many other anti-gun activists are using this as a protest against the AR-15 rifle. As someone who owns one, has fired it at the range, and is familiar with most of the components, I don't see why the rest of us innocent gun owners have to go through angry criticism and heaps of additional regulations because some deranged psychopath somehow got his hands on one and killed people with it. When you look at the ratio of gun owners that have never hurt anyone with their legally acquired firearms versus the ones that have, you'll see that most people can buy these firearms and can handle and use them responsibly and respectfully.

[Noblejanobii]

Moving this to Other Discussion since it's a more serious topic.

I really can't understand why someone would ever want to do this. Even if you're anti-gay and homophobic, that doesn't give you the right to be judge and executioner and go do something sick and twisted like this. Even if you believe it's against your religion or whatever, it's still not and never will be a reason to go out and kill people. I indentify as heterosexual and I know the Bible prohibits homosexuality, but you know, it also says not to judge others either and certain not to kill them. No one is forcing you to join them and if you don't agree with their ways, then just leave them be as with any other groups that you don't share beliefs in.

In the meantime, I have a friend who is lesbian and she's such a cool and fun person to hang out with. And honestly, I've seen her kissing another female it doesn't bother me. Some people may not agree with it, but hey, just keep it to yourself and just leave them be. And even then, it's definitely not at all a sane justification to kill people over this.

However, I'm not happy about the whole fact Obama and many other anti-gun activists are using this as a protest against the AR-15 rifle. As someone who owns one, has fired it at the range, and is familiar with most of the components, I don't see why the rest of us innocent gun owners have to go through angry criticism and heaps of additional regulations because some deranged psychopath somehow got his hands on one and killed people with it. When you look at the ratio of gun owners that have never hurt anyone with their legally acquired firearms versus the ones that have, you'll see that most people can buy these firearms and can handle and use them responsibly and respectfully.

As a person who has been molested and actually is somewhat bothered by stuff like two girls kissing (for good reason and if you don't believe me then check out my blog post, and if you still plan on hating on me then back off), I can firmly say that if I can just say "eh, whatever, that's their own choice, not mine," and then not go purchase a fire arm and shoot up a club, then certainly someone who doesn't have a good reason to be unnerved by it can be too. It's ridiculous.

And I agree on the whole gun issue, like wtf. Like, I think there should be some restrictions, because let's be real, I don't think any of us want people getting their hands on military grade machine guns or mini-guns, but there are certain guns that's it just like "mm, yeah I don't know."

[Pokemon Trainer Sarah]

I don't see why the rest of us innocent gun owners have to go through angry criticism and heaps of additional regulations

because some deranged psychopath somehow got his hands on one and killed people with it.

Unfortunately Neo, this is exactly why. Because even though 99.999% of people with guns are good people, the fact that they're so available in the US means that tiny number of people who want to hurt someone can do it, and they'll keep doing it. I don't really think there is a way to balance it and until something is done, this is just gonna keep happening over and over again. :(

This is very sad.

[Daughter of Mew]

It's shocking to think that anyone could harbour so much hate for a group of people that they actively attempt to destroy them. The fact that this happened during Pride is the worst part, as it's a time LGBT+ people should be embracing who they are, not living in fear. Normally I feel quite removed from mass murders (even ones in familiar places, like Paris) but this one really hit home.

From a UK perspective, where guns are very strictly regulated, the only thing I can blame it on are the guns. I've seen people claiming that they'd "find a way to kill regardless", but the fact is that having no access to powerful weapons really limits the damage a person can do. The US has 10.5 deaths per 100,000 due to guns (including accidents and suicides) compared to Canada's 2.0 and UK's 0.2, yet the problem is denied over and over.

It reminds me of an Onion article headline from a few years back. "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens". While the US is far from the worst for gun crime/death in the world, it's definitely the worst among developed countries.

[Noblejanobii]

I view gun control as a lot like drug control. People are still going to get the guns even if they are illegal, just like people can still get drugs even though they're illegal. The thing is though, unlike drugs, people do use these to protect themselves from those with ill intent, and if you take the guns away from the public (like our government is proposing) then the only people with guns will be the ones who will use them in horrible manners and then there's not way for people to protect themselves.

Plus the second amendment.

[starmie]

id rather not turn this into an argument about gun control because i feel that rather detracts from the issue at hand, which is the homophobia that caused this in the first place. but i will say that in this particular case, the gunman owned his gun legally and was in fact a security worker. the majority of gunmen in mass shootings acquired their guns legally, too. the argument that "theyll do it anyway!" is unfounded, i feel, when the fact remains that a lack of strict gun control allowed these particular men -- the men who commit these horrible monstrosities -- to acquire the weapons they used to kill women, people of color, LGBTQ+ people, and so on. if mass shootings were primarily done by people who had illegally obtained their weapons then i would see where people are coming from, but statistically speaking thats not the case, and in countries with strict gun control these mass shootings simply do not happen or happen significantly less often.

i guess my point here is i dont care if you like your guns and your outdated government-sanctioned document that gives you the right to own them. they are weapons of murder with no other purpose. the very weapon you own or could easily and lawfully acquire was used to kill 50 people like me last night. this was not because the gunman was a "psychopath" or "crazed" or anything similar; mental illness is not the issue and was not what motivated him to do this. he was bigoted, and hateful, and angry, and happened to own a gun, which was legally given to him, and he knew where to go to find a large number of the type of people he hated, because the club which was attacked was one of the most popular in the orlando area and represented the history of the queer community there.

pretty much anyone can purchase a gun in this country. which means that pretty much anyone, inspired by this event, could easily walk into the same clubs that i frequent and shoot me or anyone i know. nothing is stopping them if theyre motivated by enough hatred. i live 30 minutes away from aurora, CO, where another mass shooting occurred not too long ago; its not even an unreasonable fear to have. so i ask you: why would you want to fight for the right for them to do that with so little trouble? why not make that a little more difficult for men so bigoted and violent? all i hear is that you like your guns too much to acknowledge that making weapons like this easily accessible makes mass violence more accessible, too.

thats all i have to say on the matter of guns.

[Neo Emolga]

It's shocking to think that anyone could harbour so much hate for a group of people that they actively attempt to destroy them. The fact that this happened during Pride is the worst part, as it's a time LGBT+ people should be embracing who they are, not living in fear. Normally I feel quite removed from mass murders (even ones in familiar places, like Paris) but this one really hit home.

From a UK perspective, where guns are very strictly regulated, the only thing I can blame it on are the guns. I've seen people claiming that they'd "find a way to kill regardless", but the fact is that having no access to powerful weapons really limits the damage a person can do. The US has 10.5 deaths per 100,000 due to guns (including accidents and suicides) compared to Canada's 2.0 and UK's 0.2, yet the problem is denied over and over.

It reminds me of an Onion article headline from a few years back. "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens". While the US is far from the worst for gun crime/death in the world, it's definitely the worst among developed countries.

It's not right to say "the only thing I can blame it on are the guns" because there's several factors at stake here. Owning a gun will not automatically drive someone to go shooting up everyone in town. Trust me, I know from personal experience and I try to be EXTREMELY careful with loading a gun with live ammunition, always be aware of what it's pointing at, and making sure that safety stays on until it's ready to fire down range. Most people around PXR know me quite well and they know I'm not a nutcase that would go shooting up innocent people. Like I said before, a gun for home protection is like a fire extinguisher. You don't get one hoping you have to use it, but it's there in case of an emergency. Sorry, but I just don't trust a 10-15 minute police response time with my life (and that's even if you can get to the phone and use it).

There were definitely mental and bigotry issues here. And there were radical Islamic issues in addition to that (at least from what I read). The guns were the means of the crime, I will not deny that, but they do NOT reflect the thoughts that were running through this guy's head or his background. It takes a LOT of deranged mental thinking to suddenly decide you're going to take those firearms, pack up enough ammo, drive all the way to the nightclub, and not ONCE along the way stop and think about how what you're about to do is totally wrong and just outright monstrous. That is where your mental issue lies. He could have loaded that car up with explosives, fire bombs, poisonous gas bombs, or whatnot and still could have done just as much damage.

Second, those statistics can't really be counted because for one, correlation does not equal causation, and two, you need to analyze WHY the gun was used in those cases, and if you're only looking at numbers, you're not getting the whole picture. A person who commits suicide with a gun could have jumped off a bridge or dive in front of an oncoming train instead. Meanwhile, a gun accident is caused by negligence, misuse, and lack of education, which is a fatal outcome possible with many other machines and tools like cars, power tools, and things that could involve fire, electricity, and chemicals.

id rather not turn this into an argument about gun control because i feel that rather detracts from the issue at hand, which is the homophobia that caused this in the first place. but i will say that in this particular case, the gunman owned his gun legally and was in fact a security worker. the majority of gunmen in mass shootings acquired their guns legally, too. the argument that "theyll do it anyway!" is unfounded, i feel, when the fact remains that a lack of strict gun control allowed these particular men -- the men who commit these horrible monstrosities -- to acquire the weapons they used to kill women, people of color, LGBTQ+ people, and so on. if mass shootings were primarily done by people who had illegally obtained their weapons then i would see where people are coming from, but statistically speaking thats not the case, and in countries with strict gun control these mass shootings simply do not happen or happen significantly less often.

i guess my point here is i dont care if you like your guns and your outdated government-sanctioned document that gives you the right to own them. they are weapons of murder with no other purpose. the very weapon you own or could easily and lawfully acquire was used to kill 50 people like me last night. this was not because the gunman was a "psychopath" or "crazed" or anything similar; mental illness is not the issue and was not what motivated him to do this. he was bigoted, and hateful, and angry, and happened to own a gun, which was legally given to him, and he knew where to go to find a large number of the type of people he hated, because the club which was attacked was one of the most popular in the orlando area and represented the history of the queer community there.

pretty much anyone can purchase a gun in this country. which means that pretty much anyone, inspired by this event, could easily walk into the same clubs that i frequent and shoot me or anyone i know. nothing is stopping them if theyre motivated by enough hatred. i live 30 minutes away from aurora, CO, where another mass shooting occurred not too long ago; its not even an unreasonable fear to have. so i ask you: why would you want to fight for the right for them to do that with so little trouble? why not make that a little more difficult for men so bigoted and violent? all i hear is that you like your guns too much to acknowledge that making weapons like this easily accessible makes mass violence more accessible, too.

thats all i have to say on the matter of guns.

Eh, don't mind me saying, but I don't know why you would say you don't want it to turn into an argument about gun control, but then write three paragraphs exactly about that. I don't agree with your statements, hence why I feel this rebuttal is necessary...

Strict gun control may lead to less shootings, but not necessarily less murder (Again, correlation ≠ causation). Case in point, the bombings in France, Belgium, Turkey, and 9/11 all didn't involve the killing of innocent people with firearms. Omar could have used a bomb, arson, or poison as an alternative (all of which can be done with household items), which is why I'm saying the mental and murderous intent issue behind this incident is way more of a factor than the guns. Your argument seems to bend toward the bias against guns and makes it sound like anger + guns will always equal mass shootings. I have guns. I have been angry. Have I gone out and shot people because of it? Heck no. Anger is only temporary, and I know this. It fades off and I, like many other gun owners that experience this, know WAY better than to use a weapon out of anger or hate. The ones that can't do this and have acted out of anger or hate are definitely the kinds of people that shouldn't have guns. Hence, why we don't let anyone with criminal records, mental issues, or violent backgrounds get their hands on a firearm.

And please, please, please don't say the constitution is an "outdated government-sanctioned document." Ugh, reading that just made me cringe, because that's like saying the right to free speech, freedom of press, and religion is outdated also, along with the things that give us equal rights, rights to vote, and so on. Also, you're quite wrong in saying that "pretty much anyone can purchase a gun in this country." Heh, heck no. In NJ, you have to go through quite a heck of a background verification process and slipping up on just one point (mental issues, criminal records, etc...) will stop you from getting one. I'm not sure what is involved in other states, but there are laws in place to some degree. As long as the laws are reasonable, I'm fine with complying with them, but there are anti-gun activists that would either want them to get to the point of being completely unreasonable (which some gun laws have gotten to that point in some cases) or just ban them altogether.

Instead of being anti-gun, be pro gun education. I'm not asking you to buy one, join the NRA, and go all crazy for them, but at least please agree with me that instead of relying on media to educate people about guns, people should be made more aware of the nature of guns, what owning one entails, safety precautions, and how to prevent misuse (and yes, I did take training classes before owning any guns myself). It may not prevent all incidents, but if it prevents at least some, then it was all worth it.