pulse shooting in orlando, FL

**starmie** · 06-12-2016, 04:58 PM

i figured i would make a thread on this to raise awareness in case folks havent heard already, due to not following the news, not being on tumblr/facebook, living under a rock, etc

last night in an LGBTQ+ nightclub called pulse, in orlando, florida, a mass shooting occurred that was very likely - almost certainly, in my opinion - a homophobic hate crime. this is now officially the most deadly mass shooting in american history, with a body count of over 50 and over 50 injured. the shooter was pronounced dead at the scene after the SWAT team stormed the scene after three hours of a hostage situation within the club. the shooter's father confirmed that he believed the attack was motivated by homophobia, as his son had gotten angry months prior upon seeing two men kissing in miami.

please keep the victims of this monstrous tragedy in your thoughts. if anyone here lives in the orlando area, there is a huge need for blood donations at this time, so please consider heading to your nearest blood bank to help out if youre able. this is a handy list of donation centers that are open today.

this article gives more detailed information on the massacre.

**Noblejanobii** · 06-12-2016, 07:02 PM

I saw the articles and alerts when I woke up this morning. They've declared a state of emergency from the sheer amount of people dead and injured in the city from what I understand. Stuff like this is just despicable. I can't believe someone would do something like this, but at the same time it doesn't surprise me. This goes beyond what my own personal beliefs are, way beyond it. In my experience with politics, law, and government, I've picked up a few interesting things that it would behoove the general citizen to know. One thing about the freedoms of the first amendment, they only go as far as another person's rights. It's why you can't practice the Aztec religion in the USA, it involves killing people, which is infringement on their right to life. The same goes here. I've seen people classifying this as an act of speech, and therefore it's protected, but it's not. So to hell with what my personal beliefs are, because those don't apply here. These were living, breathing people. They had families, loved ones, friends, acquaintances, people who had seen them! I'll go through purgatory for each of their souls before I believe for a second that this is acceptable. They impacted people and now the shooter has taken away their ability to do it again. This is so stupid, so freaking stupid. I may not always seem like on I'm the side of the LGBTQ+ community, but even I have eyes, and as blind as I am, even I can see that something like this is wrong.

**starmie** · 06-12-2016, 07:36 PM

i feel like it is worth adding, in the light of this horrific event, that it is currently pride month. pride month is both a celebration of LGBTQ+ identities and a reminder of the suffering that we have gone through historically and still go through today. this massacre is one of many. the AIDS epidemic was a government-approved genocide of gay and transgender communities. members of the queer community are faced with systemic and individual violence each and every day. this attack was not an isolated incident; while it may be one of the biggest and most horrific individual instances in recent history, it is part of a larger pattern.

this is our reality.

please remember this, internalize it, if you are not a member of the LGBTQ+ community yourself.

let this be your wake-up call.

**Neo Emolga** · 06-12-2016, 09:22 PM

Moving this to Other Discussion since it's a more serious topic.

I really can't understand why someone would ever want to do this. Even if you're anti-gay and homophobic, that doesn't give you the right to be judge and executioner and go do something sick and twisted like this. Even if you believe it's against your religion or whatever, it's still not and never will be a reason to go out and kill people. I indentify as heterosexual and I know the Bible prohibits homosexuality, but you know, it also says not to judge others either and certain not to kill them. No one is forcing you to join them and if you don't agree with their ways, then just leave them be as with any other groups that you don't share beliefs in.

In the meantime, I have a friend who is lesbian and she's such a cool and fun person to hang out with. And honestly, I've seen her kissing another female it doesn't bother me. Some people may not agree with it, but hey, just keep it to yourself and just leave them be. And even then, it's definitely not at all a sane justification to kill people over this.

However, I'm not happy about the whole fact Obama and many other anti-gun activists are using this as a protest against the AR-15 rifle. As someone who owns one, has fired it at the range, and is familiar with most of the components, I don't see why the rest of us innocent gun owners have to go through angry criticism and heaps of additional regulations because some deranged psychopath somehow got his hands on one and killed people with it. When you look at the ratio of gun owners that have never hurt anyone with their legally acquired firearms versus the ones that have, you'll see that most people can buy these firearms and can handle and use them responsibly and respectfully.

**Noblejanobii** · 06-12-2016, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Neo Emolga

Moving this to Other Discussion since it's a more serious topic.

I really can't understand why someone would ever want to do this. Even if you're anti-gay and homophobic, that doesn't give you the right to be judge and executioner and go do something sick and twisted like this. Even if you believe it's against your religion or whatever, it's still not and never will be a reason to go out and kill people. I indentify as heterosexual and I know the Bible prohibits homosexuality, but you know, it also says not to judge others either and certain not to kill them. No one is forcing you to join them and if you don't agree with their ways, then just leave them be as with any other groups that you don't share beliefs in.

In the meantime, I have a friend who is lesbian and she's such a cool and fun person to hang out with. And honestly, I've seen her kissing another female it doesn't bother me. Some people may not agree with it, but hey, just keep it to yourself and just leave them be. And even then, it's definitely not at all a sane justification to kill people over this.

However, I'm not happy about the whole fact Obama and many other anti-gun activists are using this as a protest against the AR-15 rifle. As someone who owns one, has fired it at the range, and is familiar with most of the components, I don't see why the rest of us innocent gun owners have to go through angry criticism and heaps of additional regulations because some deranged psychopath somehow got his hands on one and killed people with it. When you look at the ratio of gun owners that have never hurt anyone with their legally acquired firearms versus the ones that have, you'll see that most people can buy these firearms and can handle and use them responsibly and respectfully.

As a person who has been molested and actually is somewhat bothered by stuff like two girls kissing (for good reason and if you don't believe me then check out my blog post, and if you still plan on hating on me then back off), I can firmly say that if I can just say "eh, whatever, that's their own choice, not mine," and then not go purchase a fire arm and shoot up a club, then certainly someone who doesn't have a good reason to be unnerved by it can be too. It's ridiculous.

And I agree on the whole gun issue, like wtf. Like, I think there should be some restrictions, because let's be real, I don't think any of us want people getting their hands on military grade machine guns or mini-guns, but there are certain guns that's it just like "mm, yeah I don't know."

**Pokemon Trainer Sarah** · 06-12-2016, 09:44 PM

I don't see why the rest of us innocent gun owners have to go through angry criticism and heaps of additional regulations

because some deranged psychopath somehow got his hands on one and killed people with it.

Unfortunately Neo, this is exactly why. Because even though 99.999% of people with guns are good people, the fact that they're so available in the US means that tiny number of people who want to hurt someone can do it, and they'll keep doing it. I don't really think there is a way to balance it and until something is done, this is just gonna keep happening over and over again. :(

This is very sad.

**Daughter of Mew** · 06-12-2016, 10:17 PM

It's shocking to think that anyone could harbour so much hate for a group of people that they actively attempt to destroy them. The fact that this happened during Pride is the worst part, as it's a time LGBT+ people should be embracing who they are, not living in fear. Normally I feel quite removed from mass murders (even ones in familiar places, like Paris) but this one really hit home.

From a UK perspective, where guns are very strictly regulated, the only thing I can blame it on are the guns. I've seen people claiming that they'd "find a way to kill regardless", but the fact is that having no access to powerful weapons really limits the damage a person can do. The US has 10.5 deaths per 100,000 due to guns (including accidents and suicides) compared to Canada's 2.0 and UK's 0.2, yet the problem is denied over and over.

It reminds me of an Onion article headline from a few years back. "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens". While the US is far from the worst for gun crime/death in the world, it's definitely the worst among developed countries.

**Noblejanobii** · 06-12-2016, 10:20 PM

I view gun control as a lot like drug control. People are still going to get the guns even if they are illegal, just like people can still get drugs even though they're illegal. The thing is though, unlike drugs, people do use these to protect themselves from those with ill intent, and if you take the guns away from the public (like our government is proposing) then the only people with guns will be the ones who will use them in horrible manners and then there's not way for people to protect themselves.

Plus the second amendment.

**starmie** · 06-12-2016, 11:28 PM

id rather not turn this into an argument about gun control because i feel that rather detracts from the issue at hand, which is the homophobia that caused this in the first place. but i will say that in this particular case, the gunman owned his gun legally and was in fact a security worker. the majority of gunmen in mass shootings acquired their guns legally, too. the argument that "theyll do it anyway!" is unfounded, i feel, when the fact remains that a lack of strict gun control allowed these particular men -- the men who commit these horrible monstrosities -- to acquire the weapons they used to kill women, people of color, LGBTQ+ people, and so on. if mass shootings were primarily done by people who had illegally obtained their weapons then i would see where people are coming from, but statistically speaking thats not the case, and in countries with strict gun control these mass shootings simply do not happen or happen significantly less often.

i guess my point here is i dont care if you like your guns and your outdated government-sanctioned document that gives you the right to own them. they are weapons of murder with no other purpose. the very weapon you own or could easily and lawfully acquire was used to kill 50 people like me last night. this was not because the gunman was a "psychopath" or "crazed" or anything similar; mental illness is not the issue and was not what motivated him to do this. he was bigoted, and hateful, and angry, and happened to own a gun, which was legally given to him, and he knew where to go to find a large number of the type of people he hated, because the club which was attacked was one of the most popular in the orlando area and represented the history of the queer community there.

pretty much anyone can purchase a gun in this country. which means that pretty much anyone, inspired by this event, could easily walk into the same clubs that i frequent and shoot me or anyone i know. nothing is stopping them if theyre motivated by enough hatred. i live 30 minutes away from aurora, CO, where another mass shooting occurred not too long ago; its not even an unreasonable fear to have. so i ask you: why would you want to fight for the right for them to do that with so little trouble? why not make that a little more difficult for men so bigoted and violent? all i hear is that you like your guns too much to acknowledge that making weapons like this easily accessible makes mass violence more accessible, too.

thats all i have to say on the matter of guns.

**Noblejanobii** · 06-13-2016, 12:16 AM

Below is a very raw response to the whole guns argument that was brought up above. Read at your own risk:

Spoiler:

Okay, firstly, don't use homophobia in the incorrect context. Homophobia means the fear of gays, you're using it as if it means the hatred of them. The word you are looking for is homomisia.

Secondly, while you are correct, that most shooters do obtain their guns legally, I'm just saying it won't stop. Look at prohibition, perfect example. You ever noticed how the percentage of drinkers went up during that time period? Why is that, since it's illegal after all, that should prevent it because there's a constitutional amendment (which I will remind you the constitution is the law of the land and trumps all other authorities therefore making it a federal crime to drink) saying you can't drink. And yet, the rates still went up. In the world we live in, the people I've seen, been around, and heard of, all follow the same pattern, it seems. If something is illegal, it's considered cool to have it or use it. Drinking underage? Oh bro, that's the coolest thing ever. Adults dealing drugs? It's a high paying job and gets you respect for putting your neck on the line to deal these drugs. Who is to say guns won't be the same way? The USA isn't like Canada or the UK. In case you haven't noticed, the USA is full of people that believe in their freedoms and will fight for them. I mean for Pete's sake, people still get into fights in my area over the Confederate flag and that was almost a year ago.

Thirdly, why did you just assume that I own a gun? You don't know me. You don't have any information on me beyond what I have posted on my profile. Fun fact, in the state where I currently live, I can't own a gun. Why? Because I'm not old enough yet. So your argument that says "I like my guns too much" is invalid because I don't own one. I don't even know how to shoot one. The closest I've come to shooting a gun is shooting one of the pop cork guns at the Spring Fling five years ago. And before you say "Oh but someone in your family must own one", no, we don't. In my neighborhood, it is illegal to discharge a firearm, so my family does not own one. My grandparents, both sets, have stated they don't want to own guns. In both cases, my grandfathers have served in the war, and the sight of a firearm triggers their PTSD. What does that mean? It means we do not mention guns, we do not possess guns, and we sure as heck do not show them guns while we are in their household. And while I cannot speak for my aunts, uncles, and cousins, if they do own firearms, then I sure as heck do not know about it. So do not make a statement such as "you like your guns too much" when it is very well possible the person you are speaking to does not even own one.

Finally, as I stated above, I already said having precautions against people possessing firearms is fine, as long as it doesn't go to far, because again, the second amendment still applies. So why are you attacking someone who actually agreed with the same point as you, just not as far. And before you say that you didn't point me out specifically, you would be correct, you didn't. However, it using the term "you", it made it very applicable to the reader who felt that the speech given applied to them. And while I understand that you feel threatened that some man (or woman because despite what you seem to believe, women are just as capable of doing these actions as men are even if the more recent shootings have all been caused by men) could enter a club you attend and hurt you or your friends, and I am sorry that you feel that way, have you ever considered that it's not just you that feels that way. I am currently within driving distance of the church that underwent the Charleston shooting last year. In fact, I was in driving distance last year when it happened. I may not be African American, but do you not think that every time I attend a church in this area, because of that shooting, I feel anxious? One of my very close friends will be attending college this coming fall within walking distance of that church. Do you think I won't be worried about him and his well being?

Look, the point is, this is a tragedy and it's not fair that something like this happened to so many people. But to demonize the weapon used to cause this is not the solution. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and that's the hard reality of it.