pulse shooting in orlando, FL

[HKim]

I disagree with the last part. This is not an terrorist. The guy had no connection to isis. Weather he bought into what he read online is nother matter. This is about a society that has openly fought the rights of the LGBT community and allowed people this kind of hate to grow. The guy was a nut job. He was able to get a gun and he took out his act of hate. Lets not go giving our own Christian extremist more reasons to attack Muslim shop owners.

Now that's going a little extreme, isn't it? I don't think it's out of place to call this an act of terrorism when President Obama says he believes it should be investigated as such.

The FBI is appropriately investigating this as an act of terrorism. And I’ve directed that we must spare no effort to determine what -- if any -- inspiration or association this killer may have had with terrorist groups.

I think that it's only logical to conclude that if this was an act of terrorism, the perpetrator must therefore be a terrorist.

Beyond that, I think we truly need to look at the facts here. I haven't seen much evidence that the shooter acted on hate against homosexuals, especially given the evidence he regularly visited the nightclub for years. If there was hate, it likely came from extremist views influenced by ISIS. If it was a personal matter, I wouldn't necessarily call it a hate crime depending on the cause.

I don't think we should avoid looking at facts just because they might be unpleasant or could incite action. It is the truth that will set us free.

[Rival Max]

Now that's going a little extreme, isn't it? I don't think it's out of place to call this an act of terrorism when President Obama says he believes it should be investigated as such.



I think that it's only logical to conclude that if this was an act of terrorism, the perpetrator must therefore be a terrorist.

Beyond that, I think we truly need to look at the facts here. I haven't seen much evidence that the shooter acted on hate against homosexuals, especially given the evidence he regularly visited the nightclub for years. If there was hate, it likely came from extremist views influenced by ISIS. If it was a personal matter, I wouldn't necessarily call it a hate crime depending on the cause.

I don't think we should avoid looking at facts just because they might be unpleasant or could incite action. It is the truth that will set us free.

The father of the shooter who killed 50 people at a gay nightclub in Florida said his son became enraged recently when he saw two men kissing — and that may have been what sparked the worst mass shooting in US history.

This was the first bit of news that came out.

Then what followed was a loose connection to terrorism. They have found actual evidence linking this guy to isis. But as a default to american logic. EVERYTHING has to be ISIS.

This was a hate crime.

[HKim]

The father of the shooter who killed 50 people at a gay nightclub in Florida said his son became enraged recently when he saw two men kissing — and that may have been what sparked the worst mass shooting in US history.

This was the first bit of news that came out.

Then what followed was a loose connection to terrorism. They have found actual evidence linking this guy to isis. But as a default to american logic. EVERYTHING has to be ISIS.

This was a hate crime.

Yet patrons at the nightclub said the shooter hung out there for years. He surely must have witnessed two men kissing several times while there. If he was so enraged at this action, why would he continue to return?

While his father may have insight into his son, it is still the speculation of one man. And even he did not expect the actions his son undertook that horrific night.

Meanwhile we have, as you said, evidence linking the shooter to ISIS. And a loose connection to terrorism is still terrorism. The FBI is investigating this as an act of terrorism, not as a hate crime.

Unless we learn otherwise, I think this is the category we should focus on.

[Daughter of Mew]

Frequenting the club could have been his method of deflecting suspicion so his attack was more easily carried out, as bouncers are less likely to frisk someone they consider a regular. Would have made it super easy to get the weapons into the club. I'm just speculating though.

I agree that the focus has been taken away from the victims. So many people are deflecting the blame away from being an LGBT+ hate crime, which is what it is. This was a purposeful and directy attack on LGBT+ people in what should have been a safe space, during their most important time of year. Please don't generalise it out to "an attack on Western values" like I have seen others doing.

Yes, it may also have been a terrorist attack, but the key word in that sentence is also. I'd like to add that just because someone claims ISIL motivated them, doesn't mean that's necessarily true; for example, the 2014 Sydney attack was perpetrated by someone claiming connections to multiple (conflicting) terrorist organisations, but that was actually a result of his untreated schizophrenia causing delusions which he then acted on.

[Dash]

@Rival Max

Even if he was not connected to ISIS and this was a hate crime, it was still an act of terrorism. The idea of terrorism isn't just applied to these extremist groups and we forget how to apply it to more than just that. The definition of terrorism defines it best:

'terrorism : the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal'

The key points to this have been bolded. This was a horrible shooting that has definitely frightened a lot of people in the US about their safety and possibly sexuality and it shows if you talk to them. It may not seem like there was an underlying political goal, but it has stirred up the government and civilians. This has turned gun control into more of a hot topic than ever, and it is possibly setting a new definition for how bad a hate crime can truly be.

@Daughter of Mew

I agree with you, but I think the main reason we're quick to blame is because we are in a state of unrest with what has happened in the last few years. We need something to blame, and we collapse if we don't. this could be an act of a terrorist group, but we have to give it a few weeks still before we can most likely figure out all of the actual details.

---

And to end this with a small personal opinion, I feel like guns are a necessary option in life, and that we should have them. But I think having a more controlling environment for them isn't here yet. We should have complete background checks on those who go to buy one, or you need an approved permit to handle one.

Regardless, there is one concept that I always keep in mind. I think that we as a society cannot handle the ability to end a life in the single pull of a trigger, and it makes us think, what morals are to limit us with this kind of power in our hands?

[Neo Emolga]

Reposting these from Imgur (Source). Please go through these at least once. I think it's important everyone knows who they were.

Spoiler:

[SassySnivy]

Reposting these from Imgur (Source). Please go through these at least once. I think it's important everyone knows who they were.

Spoiler:

This. This just makes me so angry. These were ****ing people. Aspiring people who wanted to make the most out of life...all so young. I guess it isn't until you REALLY see that it's "not just a number" that you realized just how ****ed this is. By extension, I also am angered by the fact that this stupid piece of **** caused the internet and just people to fight with each other about stupid **** once again.

[Rival Max]

@Rival Max

Even if he was not connected to ISIS and this was a hate crime, it was still an act of terrorism. The idea of terrorism isn't just applied to these extremist groups and we forget how to apply it to more than just that. The definition of terrorism defines it best:

'terrorism : the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal'

The key points to this have been bolded. This was a horrible shooting that has definitely frightened a lot of people in the US about their safety and possibly sexuality and it shows if you talk to them. It may not seem like there was an underlying political goal, but it has stirred up the government and civilians. This has turned gun control into more of a hot topic than ever, and it is possibly setting a new definition for how bad a hate crime can truly be.

Seeing that list is heartbreaking. So many young people

@Daughter of Mew

I agree with you, but I think the main reason we're quick to blame is because we are in a state of unrest with what has happened in the last few years. We need something to blame, and we collapse if we don't. this could be an act of a terrorist group, but we have to give it a few weeks still before we can most likely figure out all of the actual details.

---

And to end this with a small personal opinion, I feel like guns are a necessary option in life, and that we should have them. But I think having a more controlling environment for them isn't here yet. We should have complete background checks on those who go to buy one, or you need an approved permit to handle one.

Regardless, there is one concept that I always keep in mind. I think that we as a society cannot handle the ability to end a life in the single pull of a trigger, and it makes us think, what morals are to limit us with this kind of power in our hands?

My problem is with the term terrorist and its negative impact on the Muslim community. By calling him a terrorist it is pulling attention from the real concern. This was only a hate crime and days in this is now a fact as the evidence completely backs this. We do not need anymore reasons for Americans to turn even more hate towards the Muslim community. This hate is disgusting and in stead of working towards a more educated USA we are just contining this thread of ignorance which leads only towards violence.


Seeing that list is heartbreaking. So many young people

[Suicune's Fire]

/late


"He had been married for about a year and on Sunday morning his husband frantically called friends and family when he couldn't connect with Eric."

"Jason's uncle described him as "very excited about his journey.""

Reading all of those made me cry. Thanks for sharing, Neo. It's beautiful that somebody compiled that to be shared with the world. Truly, this world can be an awful place.